The radon business is a scam. (settlement, percentage, escrow, contract)

[Barking Spider]

"Thats because you can't reduce your mitigation costs and install a proper system......they are pretty much set in concrete....the fans, pvc piping etc all rise with the cost of living and the only thing left to cut is your profit."
I think you forgot the labor part.
Material cost.
Labor cost.
Sales price.
What's left over is profit.

[FlyersFan]

Originally Posted by Barking Spider

"Thats because you can't reduce your mitigation costs and install a proper system......they are pretty much set in concrete....the fans, pvc piping etc all rise with the cost of living and the only thing left to cut is your profit."
I think you forgot the labor part.
Material cost.
Labor cost.
Sales price.
What's left over is profit.

Actually......all the mitigators I know including myself are one man operations with the exception of the licensed electrician to do the electrical portion of the work.......if you read back a post or two you'll see where I list my costs to run my business.....while you can look on yourself as the "labor" factor in reality for one man operations its profit ? I sepnd 4-5 hours on site per job but since I draw a weekly paycheck thats not a consideration when pricing each job........its all just a basic cost for an uncomplicated system.......usually $1300 plus permits....rarely I do a job for $1200 plus permits.....no one goes under that figure despite the fact there are 3 other mitigators in South Jersey.......bottom line here is that realtors refer to who they trust.....I have build a long history of trust over 20 years in showing up when I say I will and doing exactly what I said I was going to do....thats hard to find to today with any contractor.......no agent is going to recommend an unknown to a client just because hes a few dollars cheaper. You can't charge based upon what your competition does.....you have to provide better service and build trust.

[escanlan]

Originally Posted by FlyersFan

In the mitigation business theres no need to compete....the client has to use a state licensed mitigator and theres only so many of them......... why cut your prices and work for next to nothing if theres no need to ?

So you agree with what chet everett has written?

Originally Posted by chet everett

You're right, if you can make $2400 to $2600/day taking a fan that only costs about 10% of the total charges and other material whose costs are by your own admission inconsequential it would be foolish to try to be able to undercut your competitors when your time is almost certainly better spent working with the State Agencies to limit the number of people licensed to perform this work which we both agree is not rocket science.

....the thing that makes this business unique is the fact that the target customer is almost exclusively people actively engaged in the highly emotional and time sensitive process of home purchase.

Sadly the business model that I see too many radon mitigators operate under is similar to what you describe. By your own admission you and your fellow mitigators police one other to keep your relationships with real estate agents and attorney as your primary means of referral.

[FlyersFan]

Originally Posted by escanlan

So you agree with what chet everett has written?

Not at all....please refer to my prior post near the bottom of page 13 where I list just a few of the costs to operate my business that "chet" seemed quite unaware of. Additionally....I don't work with or for state agencies....I am only licensed through the DEP which requires continuing education and recertification each year......the state agencies are there to enforce the protocol and fine those who don't follow it. While they are receptive to input on how to improve the program they certainly don't take orders from those who are already licensed to prevent others from becoming licensed. There is a program in place for those who wish to become mitigators which requires attending a training program at Rutgers Eastern Regional Training Center and passing a written exam along with a short apprentice program......theres certainly not a government conspiracy afoot to "eliminate" competition despite what paranoid "chet" believes. He really needs to get a grip on his assumptions and accusations.

[Barking Spider]

Your prices are lower than systems installed in my area of East TN. I gave up on this thread because of the idiots that think radon is a scam. I just popped in to look at the last page when it came up on my CD page.

I understand about one man operations and labor/profit.

[FlyersFan]

Originally Posted by Barking Spider

Your prices are lower than systems installed in my area of East TN. I gave up on this thread because of the idiots that think radon is a scam. I just popped in to look at the last page when it came up on my CD page.

I understand about one man operations and labor/profit.

Thank you for your support......I'm having a dificult time getting "chet" to understand a radon mitigation system installed properly costs more than $500 !!!

[chet everett]

I take exception with the following points:

#1 -- The manipulation of the buyers and sellers at the time they are attempting to come to agreement on the sale of a house.

#2 -- The use of fear and threats that unless the seller succumbs to the full cost of the recommended system they or their listing agent are at risk of litigation. This counter to every other aspect of negotiation that is central to the sale and purchase of real estate.

#3 -- Insistence that so much of the mitigation is dependent on some unusual knowledge / risk / record keeping that it is impossible for there to be normal competition.

These points would still be the basis of my objections regardless of whether the cost of mitigation was a few hundred dollars or tens of thousands of dollars.

[Boompa]

There was a whole episode of KING OF THE HILL about Radon Inspection Scam

[fairmarketvalue]

Originally Posted by chet everett

Please allow me to "critize", as it is meant constructively. I apologize for my failure to use spell check on my post last night, it probably would also have been helpful to stop posting after putting on my nightcap...

I have over 5,000 posts on this forum and hardly feel I am hiding behind any cloak. I am just a few years younger than you and I know that in Illinois prior to 1994 or so I never heard a thing about radon in home sales. Amazing what a little lobbying and legislative action will do...

I am a licensed real estate agent and real estate investor however I make more income from an unrelated profession. I still occasionally do assist buyers in real estate deals as having been involved in this for over two decades I get referrals from friends of friends and the parents of people shopping for a house in the towns they grew up in. I have a diverse background and have my original undergraduate degree in chemistry. I have additional certificates /degrees in education, information technology and specialized financial fields. The relevance of these is more in the approach I take to business and economic philosophy than to any special technical expertise, however I have taken continuing education classes in radon and other inspections for real estate professional in addition to being involved in educational initiatives of the American Nuclear Society and Argonne National Lab when I was teaching full time. ANS : About and Division of Educational Programs Both of these are near where I live.

You're right, if you can make $2400 to $2600/day taking a fan that only costs about 10% of the total charges and other material whose costs are by your own admission inconsequential it would be foolish to try to be able to undercut your competitors when your time is almost certainly better spent working with the State Agencies to limit the number of people licensed to perform this work which we both agree is not rocket science. Few electricians that I know would be able make that kind of money, as the average union wage in Chicago is around $35/hr Ibew Local 134 Salaries | Simply Hired

I disagree with other posters that do not feel it is necessary to remediate high concentrations of radon when it is found. I simply feel that like every other aspect of real estate / home improvement / maintenance it should a negotiated between competent providers. The techniques to adequately address radon are well documented by the many web sites that discuss the matter and the thing that makes this business unique is the fact that the target customer is almost exclusively people actively engaged in the highly emotional and time sensitive process of home purchase.

The overly cozy relationships between inspectors, real estate agents, and mitigators is also highly unusual. I know dozens of other trades people that COULD operate this way, from roofers and electricians to painters and plumbers but virtually none do. If a seller feels that they can only afford to contribute $500 toward a remediation it should be a private matter that the BUYER decides whether it makes sense to use that and some of their own money to address the situation or handle it another way. The thought that doing this would be prevented by either bureaucratic mandates or threats of litigation is abhorrent.

Sadly the business model that I see too many radon mitigators operate under is similar to what you describe. By your own admission you and your fellow mitigators police one other to keep your relationships with real estate agents and attorney as your primary means of referral. To me it seems that the whole issue of indoor air quality could be addressed by those with the skills and knowledge to address the whole range of potential indoor air problems. From volatile organic compounds to the combustion by products and allergens the range of solutions and energy saving techniques would seem to dovetail well with the services a qualified radon mitigation specialist could offer. Of course the benefits and harms from not addressing these issues would be apparent in much shorter time frame than the sort of longer term effects of radon. This would require cessation of trading on emotional fears / lack of knowledge to being able to deliver results in a more tangible arena.
Very curious...

Originally Posted by chet everett

I take exception with the following points:

#1 -- The manipulation of the buyers and sellers at the time they are attempting to come to agreement on the sale of a house.

#2 -- The use of fear and threats that unless the seller succumbs to the full cost of the recommended system they or their listing agent are at risk of litigation. This counter to every other aspect of negotiation that is central to the sale and purchase of real estate.

#3 -- Insistence that so much of the mitigation is dependent on some unusual knowledge / risk / record keeping that it is impossible for there to be normal competition.

These points would still be the basis of my objections regardless of whether the cost of mitigation was a few hundred dollars or tens of thousands of dollars.

After giving you reps for these 2 great posts, had to come back to this thread and say, again, scam at it's best! Although the favorite word of these economic times is "ponzi scheme", perhaps this better fits. High, levels, my a$$! As I explained many, many pages ago in this thread, in our previous home we sold, one area of the entire home, 4.2, in basement, probably needed a sealed cover over the sump pump. Rest of home fell under 3 for main and upper level! It was absolute BS that we were requested to "mitigate" to the tune of 1,200-2,000 (of estimates given), and even more BS that it has entered the RE market and the transactions of them, giving buyers reason to back out if they don't get the "demands" of that mitigation met!! Pi$$ed me off, greatly, and this thread and the posts of flyers and barking spider even more! I guess someone's "get rich quick" plan, panned out, at least where Radon is concerned. What will(or should we) think of next? I'll have to put some thought to that one. Dangerous gases in the home........hmmmm, and what's most interesting is that if it were something that the BUYERS had to be responsible for, from the beginning, these radon testers and mitigaters would have been out of business already. It's only because it's at the hands of the one who doesn't have to "spend the money" that it has a leg to stand on. And Chett never said he had never "heard of radon" but radon testing/mitigation, and that prior to the last RE crisis, another tool of conspiracy to bring to the table of negotiations. Unbelievable!

[FlyersFan]

Originally Posted by chet everett

I take exception with the following points:

#1 -- The manipulation of the buyers and sellers at the time they are attempting to come to agreement on the sale of a house.
Exactly who is doing this "manipulation" ?

#2 -- The use of fear and threats that unless the seller succumbs to the full cost of the recommended system they or their listing agent are at risk of litigation. This counter to every other aspect of negotiation that is central to the sale and purchase of real estate.
Exactly how does this differ from termite inspection and treatment and exactly what "threats" are you referring to ? Where do you live that sellers live in fear from threats and who is doing the threatening ?

#3 -- Insistence that so much of the mitigation is dependent on some unusual knowledge / risk / record keeping that it is impossible for there to be normal competition.
The EPA provides the standards and after 20 years its hardly "unusual knowledge"......aside from you every other real estate agent seems to understand this EPA line in the sand for radon and how to guide the neogtiations for mitigation between seller and buyer....your the only one who still appears to be in the dark on this issue.....perhaps you might try a continuing education seminar to bring yourself into the 21st century ? EPA/DEP requires record keeping to insure mitigators keep track of their radiation exposure and that all protocol is followed....its for safety and to insure the public isn't scammed......and as far as your reference to "normal competition" it seems your not happy unless mitigators aren't cut-throating each other with prices so low that no one makes a profit.....thats not normal compition....thats just plain stupidity....much like many of the trendy low frill real estate companies that opened and only charged 2% commission and quickly went out of business. Again......your a fool if you charge for your services based on what your competition is charging......after that all things being equal the business that offers the best service along with owner "personality" will win out in the end. It staggers me that you just can't grasp the concept ?

These points would still be the basis of my objections regardless of whether the cost of mitigation was a few hundred dollars or tens of thousands of dollars.

Sorry....but none of your "points" sound valid to me.....just rambling thoughts that when you break them down make no sense at all ?