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Old 11-22-2009, 03:33 PM
Status: "Made the Retirement Run in under 12 parsecs!!!" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Cary, NC
43,176 posts, read 76,815,786 times
Reputation: 45533

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyFriendly View Post
non sequitur
It is nearly the crux of what you choose to ignore.

You want to pay a commission off the books, and that document says all commissions paid at or outside settlement will be on the HUD1.
It is only a non sequitur if you choose to ignore it.

And, of course, I would yield to the intepretation of the law from your brother.
I would not yield to a "No one is looking anyway" recommendation to ignore RESPA or HUD.
Sure, you can get away with it the vast majority of the time.
But if I am wrong about AZ agency and commission requirements, sure, I would yield to any professional legal advice you may receive.

 
Old 11-22-2009, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Salem, OR
15,539 posts, read 40,308,808 times
Reputation: 17422
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyFriendly View Post

Oh, by the way: I repeat my question. Why does anyone care? Who loses anything in the process? The buyer? nope. The buyer's agent? nope. My agent? nope. Me? nope - except for the grand I am willing to part with. Does it hurt the RE parent company? No, it benefits them with another sale. Does it hurt the state? nope. Then WHO IS ADVERSELY AFFECTED? Answer: no one.
Look if you are going to set up a friend to break a law, at least give them the courtesy of saying "by the way this $1,000 I'm paying you is illegal." Let them choose to break the law.

I don't care because I'm not the one getting the fine. You don't care because you're not the one getting the fine. The buyer agent and listing agent don't care because they won't get the fine. The person receiving the $1.000...they care because they are the ones subject to the fine.

Unlicensed activity fines get reported in every single newsletter release from our state licensing board. I looked at the last one and the civil fine was $2,500.
 
Old 11-22-2009, 03:40 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
756 posts, read 1,650,869 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish View Post
It is nearly the crux of what you choose to ignore.

You want to pay a commission off the books, and that document says all commissions paid at or outside settlement will be on the HUD1.
It is only a non sequitur if you choose to ignore it.

And, of course, I would yield to the intepretation of the law from your brother.
I would not yield to a "No one is looking anyway" recommendation to ignore RESPA or HUD.
Sure, you can get away with it the vast majority of the time.
But if I am wrong about AZ agency and commission requirements, sure, I would yield to any professional legal advice you may receive.
Mike, so far I have refuted every one of your assumptions, yet you persist. I don't know why you feel so strongly about it, but OK. I'm glad you aren't my agent.

I repeat: it isn't a commission and it isn't in any way, shape, or form related to the sales price, agent commissions, or other documents relating to the sale. It doesn't go on HUD-1 because it has nothing to do with the official transaction. It is a separate and private matter between me and whomever.

But thanks for your input. Have a good day. I will post again if/when I hear from my brother. He'll be back at his State office Monday.
 
Old 11-22-2009, 03:48 PM
Status: "Made the Retirement Run in under 12 parsecs!!!" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Cary, NC
43,176 posts, read 76,815,786 times
Reputation: 45533
Your error about it not being a commission is just semantics.

It is a consideration rendered for a service provided.
Do you expect the payment to be linked to a sale? Yes? Well, that commission is absolutely linked to the sales price.

Get an agent who will help you keep your nose clean.

Last edited by MikeJaquish; 11-22-2009 at 03:59 PM..
 
Old 11-22-2009, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
10,940 posts, read 21,914,344 times
Reputation: 10571
A lot of people a lot more knowledgeable about real estate have all given you the same answer. Why bother having an agent at all if you're not going to utilize their knowledge. Your websites, finders fee, etc all more than likely violate your ERTS. All you need to do is forget the finders fee, which isn't likely to produce a buyer anyway, and run your ads, etc by your agent to make sure they don't violate fair housing laws. After all, it your agents license you're potentially jeopardizing w/o their knowledge.
 
Old 11-22-2009, 04:19 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
756 posts, read 1,650,869 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Hoffman View Post
A lot of people a lot more knowledgeable about real estate have all given you the same answer. Why bother having an agent at all if you're not going to utilize their knowledge. Your websites, finders fee, etc all more than likely violate your ERTS. All you need to do is forget the finders fee, which isn't likely to produce a buyer anyway, and run your ads, etc by your agent to make sure they don't violate fair housing laws. After all, it your agents license you're potentially jeopardizing w/o their knowledge.
Well, so far it is only agents who have replied - no lawyers. And you all seem to make the assumption that your determination is correct. OK, you do that. I believe you have a one-track view point, but I am also seeking other advice.

I appreciate your input.
 
Old 11-22-2009, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
10,940 posts, read 21,914,344 times
Reputation: 10571
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyFriendly View Post
Well, so far it is only agents who have replied - no lawyers. And you all seem to make the assumption that your determination is correct. OK, you do that. I believe you have a one-track view point, but I am also seeking other advice.

I appreciate your input.
I'm not a lawyer, but I know it's against the law to steal or kill. Would you argue that I'm not a lawyer and my interpretation might be wrong? I think you would if it conflicted what you wanted to do, and that's all that is happening at this point.

There's a reason they wrote that law. I'm all about selling a house, but I also need to know the laws. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it, just that it is.
 
Old 11-22-2009, 04:33 PM
Status: "Made the Retirement Run in under 12 parsecs!!!" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Cary, NC
43,176 posts, read 76,815,786 times
Reputation: 45533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Hoffman View Post
I'm not a lawyer, but I know it's against the law to steal or kill. Would you argue that I'm not a lawyer and my interpretation might be wrong? I think you would if it conflicted what you wanted to do, and that's all that is happening at this point.

There's a reason they wrote that law. I'm all about selling a house, but I also need to know the laws. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it, just that it is.
Brandon...

Yer killin' me......
 
Old 11-22-2009, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Tempe, Arizona
4,511 posts, read 13,554,308 times
Reputation: 2201
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyFriendly View Post
Well, so far it is only agents who have replied - no lawyers. And you all seem to make the assumption that your determination is correct. OK, you do that. I believe you have a one-track view point, but I am also seeking other advice.

I appreciate your input.
Yes, but RE agents should know the laws that affect their job if they want to remain in business. Training on RESPA, Fair Housing, Disclosure, etc are required. What does your agent or her broker say about all this?
 
Old 11-22-2009, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
10,940 posts, read 21,914,344 times
Reputation: 10571
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish View Post
Brandon...

Yer killin' me......
No Mike, killing is illegal. We just covered that, although you can consult with a lawyer if you think I misinterpreted that law.
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