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In reading another abuse victim's story yesterday, I'm curious about a couple of things.
It's no secret that sex is an entitlement for many abusers. For example, one woman was having pain in her abdomen. She figured it was a cyst as she has had them before. This made sex painful for her, aside from the fact that she just wasn't feeling well and, therefore, not in the mood. Her SO wanted sex. She did it once, already doing it just to pacify him. He wanted more. She told him she was hurting (and it hurt even more after the first time), but he kept trying to sweet talk her, trying to get her turned on and saying things to the effect of knowing she wanted it because he knows (thinks) he can get her going.
They have had huge arguments about sex before, to where he didn't feel he was getting enough. Things turned violent during those discussions when she tried explaining the reason why she doesn't have much of a drive anymore (the abuse). So it devolved to her doing it out of fear. She gave in and faked her way through it from that point on. She gave in this time, even though she was in a lot of pain, more than the first time.
Now, please, I don't want to turn this into a discussion of how she needs to leave, why does she stay, blah, blah, blah. Also, she is not my friend, she is an abuse victim.
The fact is she does have a choice, to either give him some or face the consequences - violence. Do you consider those consequences to be force, which is what makes rape, rape? Do you think it should be considered force, even though she is choosing to give in?
Are there any laws concerning this?
Last edited by PassTheChocolate; 06-21-2010 at 10:26 AM..
Too much left out. What's the "violence" you speak of? Is he beating her ass if she doesn't perform wifely duties or are we talking about the feminist version of violence that amounts to "mean looks" and "not giving her money".
In reading another abuse victim's story yesterday, I'm curious about a couple of things.
It's no secret that sex is an entitlement for many abusers. For example, one woman was having pain in her abdomen. She figured it was a cyst as she has had them before. This made sex painful for her, aside from the fact that she just wasn't feeling well and, therefore, not in the mood. Her SO wanted sex. She did it once, already doing it just to pacify him. He wanted more. She told him she was hurting (and it hurt even more after the first time), but he kept trying to sweet talk her, trying to get her turned on and saying things to the effect of knowing she wanted it because he knows (thinks) he can get her going.
They have had huge arguments about sex before, to where he didn't feel he was getting enough. Things turned violent during those discussions when she tried explaining the reason why she doesn't have much of a drive anymore (the abuse). So it devolved to her doing it out of fear. So, she gave in and faked her way through it from that point on. She gave in this time, even though she was in a lot of pain, more than the first time.
Now, please, I don't want to turn this into a discussion of how she needs to leave, why does she stay, blah, blah, blah. Also, she is not my friend, she is an abuse victim.
The fact is she does have a choice, to either give him some or face the consequences - violence. Do you consider those consequences to be force, which is what makes rape, rape? Do you think it should be considered force, even though she is choosing to give in?
Are there any laws concerning this?
Yes, there are laws regarding what is considered "sexual coercion", most especially if made under duress or threat of violence. It falls under the same classifications, the differences being similar to the differences between murder and manslaughter (not THE differences, merely comparable).
It is not technically RAPE, despite how utterly deplorable as it is. It is sexual coercion, IF she's actually (we have only your tale to go on and it's sketchy at best since it began as a physical problem for her and without much description or reasoning at all twisted into her having no drive based on the abuse -- I think this account is hypothetical) facing violent repercussions, ie, if he's actually threatening physical harm to her person OR to other persons as penalty for refusing him sexual access to her body.
All of that without turning it into a discussion of all the things you said you DIDN'T want.
Location: Everybody is going to hurt you, you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for-B Marley
9,516 posts, read 20,003,071 times
Reputation: 9418
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Sasquatch
Yes, there are laws regarding what is considered "sexual coercion", most especially if made under duress or threat of violence. It falls under the same classifications, the differences being similar to the differences between murder and manslaughter (not THE differences, merely comparable).
It is not technically RAPE, despite how utterly deplorable as it is. It is sexual coercion, IF she's actually (we have only your tale to go on and it's sketchy at best since it began as a physical problem for her and without much description or reasoning at all twisted into her having no drive based on the abuse -- I think this account is hypothetical) facing violent repercussions, ie, if he's actually threatening physical harm to her person OR to other persons as penalty for refusing him sexual access to her body.
All of that without turning it into a discussion of all the things you said you DIDN'T want.
This makes sense. I was wondering how someone would successfully explain it without saying the things she didn't want to hear. Very well done.
Yes, there are laws regarding what is considered "sexual coercion", most especially if made under duress or threat of violence. It falls under the same classifications, the differences being similar to the differences between murder and manslaughter (not THE differences, merely comparable).
It is not technically RAPE, despite how utterly deplorable as it is. It is sexual coercion, IF she's actually (we have only your tale to go on and it's sketchy at best since it began as a physical problem for her and without much description or reasoning at all twisted into her having no drive based on the abuse -- I think this account is hypothetical) facing violent repercussions, ie, if he's actually threatening physical harm to her person OR to other persons as penalty for refusing him sexual access to her body.
All of that without turning it into a discussion of all the things you said you DIDN'T want.
Excellent response, Urb. Reps to you!
And for those who do not know what "violence" means, look it up online (http://tinyurl.com/38wvcjb - broken link) or try a dictionary.
In reading another abuse victim's story yesterday, I'm curious about a couple of things.
It's no secret that sex is an entitlement for many abusers. For example, one woman was having pain in her abdomen. She figured it was a cyst as she has had them before. This made sex painful for her, aside from the fact that she just wasn't feeling well and, therefore, not in the mood. Her SO wanted sex. She did it once, already doing it just to pacify him. He wanted more. She told him she was hurting (and it hurt even more after the first time), but he kept trying to sweet talk her, trying to get her turned on and saying things to the effect of knowing she wanted it because he knows (thinks) he can get her going.
They have had huge arguments about sex before, to where he didn't feel he was getting enough. Things turned violent during those discussions when she tried explaining the reason why she doesn't have much of a drive anymore (the abuse). So it devolved to her doing it out of fear. She gave in and faked her way through it from that point on. She gave in this time, even though she was in a lot of pain, more than the first time.
Now, please, I don't want to turn this into a discussion of how she needs to leave, why does she stay, blah, blah, blah. Also, she is not my friend, she is an abuse victim.
The fact is she does have a choice, to either give him some or face the consequences - violence. Do you consider those consequences to be force, which is what makes rape, rape? Do you think it should be considered force, even though she is choosing to give in?
Are there any laws concerning this?
If she says yes and gives in, then it's mutual consent.....regardless....
if it's that bad, then she SHOULD leave...if she stays, she is making herself the victim.....it is concentual....right?
Location: Everybody is going to hurt you, you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for-B Marley
9,516 posts, read 20,003,071 times
Reputation: 9418
Quote:
Originally Posted by cremebrulee
If she says yes and gives in, then it's mutual consent.....regardless....
if it's that bad, then she SHOULD leave...if she stays, she is making herself the victim.....it is concentual....
If she says yes and gives in, then it's mutual consent.....regardless....
if it's that bad, then she SHOULD leave...if she stays, she is making herself the victim.....it is concentual....right?
That's a good point. She's putting herself in the position to be coerced, if that's even really the best way to describe it, therefore she's responsible for her situation and all that it entails, for good or bad.
Going to the bar, getting drunk, then succumbing to peer pressure to drive drunk doesn't absolve one from responsibility. You have several points along that chain of events to prevent the DUI, hence failure to avoid driving drunk means you're ultimately responsible. In the context of the above post, she's willingly choosing to stay with the guy, violence or not, therefore she's ultimately culpable for what happens as much as the man.
To put it bluntly it sounds like the woman in question is playing the victim card and not taking responsibility for her situation, which is that she choose to be with the guy and is sticking with him. That woe is me attitude needs to go.
Yes, there are laws regarding what is considered "sexual coercion", most especially if made under duress or threat of violence. It falls under the same classifications, the differences being similar to the differences between murder and manslaughter (not THE differences, merely comparable).
It is not technically RAPE, despite how utterly deplorable as it is. It is sexual coercion, IF she's actually (we have only your tale to go on and it's sketchy at best since it began as a physical problem for her and without much description or reasoning at all twisted into her having no drive based on the abuse -- I think this account is hypothetical) facing violent repercussions, ie, if he's actually threatening physical harm to her person OR to other persons as penalty for refusing him sexual access to her body.
All of that without turning it into a discussion of all the things you said you DIDN'T want.
Let me clarify, I didn't want this to turn into another discussion of why she is still in this relationship, how dumb she is for staying, how she must like it, is asking for it, is lying about it....you get my drift. The stupidity has already begun.
I'm giving an example. It is not hypothetical. She lost her drive before that because of the abuse. That doesn't mean it stopped all together; he wasn't getting enough. When she expressed why she lost interest, he became violent, more than once. From that point forward, she was having sex with him out of fear, to the point that she was doing it while in pain.
We can totally dismiss this situation and use other examples if it makes it easier.
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I hope you read post #3. 
