Who Pays in an Early Relationship (husband, young, kiss, kid)

[onihC]

Originally Posted by sierraAZ

Sure. The only difference is with this attitude you are not going to get any, not me!

I do, but not with women who don't do anything but to show up like you. Ok, jabs aside, just reply to this which I have posted on different ocassions and you simply don't say a thing:

How about what I said about how women see men as being stingy for not paying for their steak and wine, entertainment, gifts, etc. Yet, women are the ones who refuse to be equals, which would involve them using their money AS OFTEN as men regardless of being date #1 or #100. If a man doesn't spend his paycheck on a woman, how stingy! But women don't dare themselves to open their wallet. Hypocrisy at is finest.

[sophialee]

Originally Posted by onihC

I do, but not with women who don't do anything but to show up like you. Ok, jabs aside, just reply to this which I have posted on different ocassions and you simply don't say a thing:

How about what I said about how women see men as being stingy for not paying for their steak and wine, entertainment, gifts, etc. Yet, women are the ones who refuse to be equals, which would involve them using their money AS OFTEN as men regardless of being date #1 or #100. If a man doesn't spend his paycheck on a woman, how stingy! But women don't dare themselves to open their wallet. Hypocrisy at is finest.

Nobody ever said they don't spend a dime on men (links to posts please!). I bought my DH an $800 watch after we'd been dating a few months.

This thread is about the courting part of the relationship and who pays if they ask. Quit trying to twist it to fit your personal vendetta against "Western Women". Write a novel or something.

And AGAIN just because YOU don't view women who don't pay for 50/50 of dates as equal doesn't mean they aren't, or that their partners don't view them as equal. That's YOUR opinion.

BTW, did you bust out the receipt for that $2 bottle of Martinelli's Sparkling Cider and make your date cough up half before you poured her a glass? Just curious.

[robee70]

Originally Posted by onihC

I do, but not with women who don't do anything but to show up like you. Ok, jabs aside, just reply to this which I have posted on different ocassions and you simply don't say a thing:

How about what I said about how women see men as being stingy for not paying for their steak and wine, entertainment, gifts, etc. Yet, women are the ones who refuse to be equals, which would involve them using their money AS OFTEN as men regardless of being date #1 or #100. If a man doesn't spend his paycheck on a woman, how stingy! But women don't dare themselves to open their wallet. Hypocrisy at is finest.

Equality has nothing to do with chivalry and vice versa.

Equal opportunity in the eyes of the law is social policy. It does not mean a women wants to become a man; We are equal but different. It means a woman has the same right to vote, work, be judged and promoted for her ability, own property etc., as a man does, in spite of the fact that she's a woman.

Chivalry has nothing to do with equality and it's not welfare, but a social practice and if Gwynedd stepped in, one that originates from nature. Men compete with each other for a woman. Therefore, debating it with women will get you nowhere because the majority of men still practice it. If you want to change gender roles and behavior in society, go get on your bullhorn to your fellow man. In the meantime you can go live in Sweden.

[2mares]

How about what I said about how women see men as being stingy for not paying for their steak and wine, entertainment, gifts, etc. Yet, women are the ones who refuse to be equals, which would involve them using their money AS OFTEN as men regardless of being date #1 or #100. If a man doesn't spend his paycheck on a woman, how stingy! But women don't dare themselves to open their wallet. Hypocrisy at is finest.

Can you just accept that it is a cultural thing in the US for a man to ask, persue and pay for dates. Im sure you are aware of how traditional dating came to be. As sociatal views have changed so has the dating scene, slowly. Nothing so intrenched in our daily lives changes overnight, nothing. You can not flip attitudes and tradition like a light switch.

Why dont all women do as you request? 1. all men dont want that, 2. all women dont want that. 3. we dont have to.

Just have faith that one day when all of the other social restraints and gender inequities have been resolved so to will the evil dating inequality.

[Braunwyn]

This reminds me a bit of my anniversary that just passed. I wanted to get my dh a card, especially since I've been a bear lately, but by the time I left work I was running late and we had plans to go to dinner. I walk into the house and on the table near the door is an orchid plant, this perfume I loved years ago, which we could never afford, and a card with some words from my dh. I told him I felt so bad that I didn't even get him a card and he said "You're not supposed to get me anything, that's what the guy does" lol. He's typically so much better about that stuff than I am.

Before any lashing surfaces, it doesn't mean I don't do stuff for him. It's just typically not romantic stuff. For example, we're going to California for his sister's wedding. It's his sister, but the trip planning falls on my shoulders (ticket for the dog, car rentals, how we'll get to the airport, the budget, etc). So, it evens out.

[JustJulia]

I've also said time and again that people who don't reciprocate are mooches. I've also frequently said that dates do not have to be expensive. A couple of sandwiches in the park is perfectly nice, as well as a great way to enjoy some conversation and company instead of silently staring at a movie screen or yelling over the noise of a club. Entertain people within your means! When I invite friends over for dinner, I don't tell them, "Well, I'm making roast beef, so Jen and Bill, please bring the potatoes and wine (it's a pricy cut of beef after all!), and Sarah and Greg, please bring a salad and dessert. The cost of laundering all the linens and washing your dishes will be offset by the cost of your gas, so let's call that a wash." No, I am the hostess and I pay for everything. if I can't afford beef, I make chicken. I entertain within my means. If I am broke and cannot invite people for dinner, I don't. And if my friends always come over and eat my food and never reciprocate, I stop inviting them.

If one of them asks me if she can bring something, I'll probably say yes unless it's a special occasion and I have everything planned. I'm not going to ASK someone to bring something pricey. And if they don't offer, I don't ask them to bring anything at all.

Here's a scenario that might illustrate why splitting every tab does not work well. If the person you wish to get to know makes less money than you or is saving up for something like a downpayment on a house, there's nothing wrong with that, right? So what happens if you want to invite this person somewhere you'd like to go? He or she cannot spare the money and says no. Or if you insist that it's your treat, are you going to be offended when that person asks you next time, and it's hot dogs and a free concert in the park? People very quickly realize when they are being assessed financially--you guys understand that, I'm sure. The homemade lasagna I made you took me two hours to make, but it only cost $20 in ingredients ... does that measure up to the $30 you spent last Friday on takeout pizza?

Entertain within your means.

[onihC]

Originally Posted by sophialee

Nobody ever said they don't spend a dime on men (links to posts please!).

If women keep saying that men who don't spend on them are stingy and not real men, men have to be tested, men have to work it, men need to take the initiative, do the planning, and simply do it all doesn't sound like they spend a dime on men, do they? Then I come here and ask how about a little equality and have BOTH GENDERS do all that, and women see it as something terrible. Doesn't leave any room to think that women do something for men but showing up.

This thread is about the courting part of the relationship and who pays if they ask

Which women have pretty much agreed that men should do it all, among other things. I have said that BOTH should be as involved and shared those beautiful experiences, I repeat, SHARE doing those things for each other regardless of being date #1 or #100, but no women seems to like that and rather just have it all for themselves.

Quit trying to twist it to fit your personal vendetta against "Western Women". Write a novel or something

Women should write another fairy tale or chickflick that shows a man doing it all for them while they just sit back and enjoy. Wait a minute, that's actually how it. All under the name of courtship, chivalry, etc.

And AGAIN just because YOU don't view women who don't pay for 50/50 of dates as equal doesn't mean they aren't, or that their partners don't view them as equal. That's YOUR opinion

Like I have asked before and no woman seems to be answering. A man takes the initiative, approaches you, starts a conversation, asks for your number, picks you up with flowers, takes you to dinner/wine, entertains you, and takes you back home. What did the lady do?

BTW, did you bust out the receipt for that $2 bottle of Martinelli's Sparkling Cider and make your date cough up half before you poured her a glass? Just curious.

Nope, see, I keep saying this over and over about equality. And by the way, there was a dinner before the candle light picnic on my picture . With asian women, they have no problem whatsoever in doing the same for me . Regardless of being our very first date or not. Call it culture or coincidence but that's how it has been so far with them. Different story with western women, and still, I don't see them as being bad. They are just not my type, that's it .

Remember my examples from the vacation trips I have taken with Asian women when it comes to expenses (hotels, flights, food, rental cars, rental boats, trains, etc.)? No need to pull out calculators or even say "my turn". If you remember those posts I have repeated before, you'll see what I mean. I am talking about girls who are either my height, shorter, slender, not so slender, etc. Doesn't matter, it doesn't hold them from enjoying us both being as involved as the other in EVERYTHING that has to do with our vacation trip, date, picnic, cook out, movies, etc. BOTH being in the receiving end, BOTH being involved . Let me know if you find those posts where I give examples of women offering chivalry to me, being involved and not just in the receiving end, vacation trips, pursuing as well and not just testing me, etc.

[sierraAZ]

Originally Posted by onihC

Ok, jabs aside, just reply to this which I have posted on different ocassions and you simply don't say a thing

I'll say whatever I want whenever I want. I'm here to entertain myself, not you.

[Redisca]

Originally Posted by onihC

Like I have asked before and no woman seems to be answering. A man takes the initiative, approaches you, starts a conversation, asks for your number, picks you up with flowers, takes you to dinner/wine, entertains you, and takes you back home. What did the lady do?

I answered that question. You just chose to ignore my answer because you didn't like it.

Doesn't matter, it doesn't hold them from enjoying us both being as involved as the other in EVERYTHING that has to do with our vacation trip, date, picnic, cook out, movies, etc. BOTH being in the receiving end, BOTH being involved .

So, if your cooking sucks, I can never cook for you. Because that would put on you on the receiving end of a romantic dinner. What have you done except show up?

[onihC]

Originally Posted by 2mares

Can you just accept that it is a cultural thing in the US for a man to ask, persue and pay for dates. Im sure you are aware of how traditional dating came to be

The interesting thing is that the tradition of men doing all those things for women is a tradition that women didn't ask to change. But the tradition of the woman at home with the apron staying in the kitchen is something women did march against. Didn't even Hillary Clinton said something about it? It seems to be an insult to women to keep such tradition. Keeping the tradition of men courting, pursuing, taking women to dinner/wine, proposing marriage, buying engagement ring, etc. it's not bad? Are we keeping only the traditions that benefit women?

If we're going to keep traditional gender roles then how about after you get wined/dined and everything a man is expected/demanded to do, you go to his place to work on his kitchen. There you'll have both genders fulfilling their TRADITIONAL roles, right?

As sociatal views have changed so has the dating scene, slowly

I guess there is a change, you're right. Sloooooowly changing but, better than nothing I guess.

Why dont all women do as you request? 1. all men dont want that, 2. all women dont want that. 3. we dont have to

In the end, you are the one enjoying that priviledge.

A big pressure for men to fulfill that role. Women don't have such a pressure. Remember my example on how men would feel pressured to take their hands out of their pockets and carry the box instead of having the women carry it? If not, that man is seen as a terrible person. Is there such pressure for women on something that involves them doing something for their men and not the other way around?

Just have faith that one day when all of the other social restraints and gender inequities have been resolved so to will the evil dating inequality.

Gotta keep the faith I guess.