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Old 07-16-2010, 03:06 AM
 
5,148 posts, read 1,478,118 times
Reputation: 2865
Quote:
Originally Posted by *VaNiLlaGoRrilLa* View Post
I must have been absent when they were handing out that rulebook.

Probably too busy in the harem, fanning my boyfriend and feeding him grapes like a good slave.
his biolgoy is close to being right. more females participated in the spreading of human genes than males. humans are a cross between harem and monogamy. of course the terms monogamy and polygamy only refer to within an eggs cycle.

 
Old 07-16-2010, 05:41 AM
 
7,771 posts, read 4,450,459 times
Reputation: 5968
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avienne View Post
It's not rare at all. I know quite a few people who got jiggy on the first date.

Also, I showed my guy this thread--actually, we've discussed it several times, as well--and his response is and .

Times change. I do think that what others have said about that makes sense. I think older men are more likely to embrace a double standard than younger men. I also think extremely young men (college) and teenage boys are more likely to embrace a double standard, and then mature out of it as they see more of the world.

Region and environment might have something to do with it, too. I think that younger men (20s, 30s) with double-standards are more common in the Bible Belt, red states, or suburban and rural areas where many people have conservative political and religious backgrounds. And some are just flat-out rednecks, for want of a better word.

It's not a common attitude in urban areas, especially on the coasts, nor is it something that people tend to make an issue of in more liberal parts of the country, among more liberal company, particularly among people who are highly educated. That may sound elitist, but that has been my experience. At any rate, spouting off as the OP and some of the other men here have done would get them (politely) laughed right out of any party any of my friends, male or female, in D.C., New York, Chicago, and Boston would ever host, that's for sure.
I guess this is the part where you make lots of assumptions, eh? I'm a liberal guy from California in his early 30s who thinks that a woman who sleeps with multiples of multiples (again, I will invoke the standard... is not quite sure what the last name is of some of the people she had sex with) is not seen as desirable longterm relationship material. I'm not making any moral judgements here. I really don't care what other people do with their lives so long as it doesn't harm anyone. I'm just stating the facts based upon what I have observed REPEATEDLY. MM stated that's what she's doing too -- she's just passing along what she has learned from talking to men.

I guess you are arguing what *should* be? (?) That's the difference? Trust me, amongst young men -- 20s, 30s, 40s -- and younger men -- teens -- and older men -- 50s and beyond -- and men from the East Coast, West Coast and in between (I've lived all over the country and work with people from over) skankiness or perceived skankiness puts a girl into a sex only, no relationship category.

Men will compromise of course. Everything is negotiable, but the woman is going to be compensating for the skank factor.

Last edited by WestCobb; 07-16-2010 at 06:12 AM..
 
Old 07-16-2010, 07:41 AM
 
3,261 posts, read 2,670,545 times
Reputation: 3884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avienne View Post
It's not rare at all. I know quite a few people who got jiggy on the first date.
I think there are two parallel discussions going on. How soon and how many. I think how many (in a guy's subjective mind if he were to find out) has a bigger impact on a guy's perception of a woman, rather than how soon. I agree there are factors, such as age, etc that affect this perception, but I believe this is still true today.

Quote:
Also, I showed my guy this thread--actually, we've discussed it several times, as well--and his response is and .

Times change. I do think that what others have said about that makes sense. I think older men are more likely to embrace a double standard than younger men. I also think extremely young men (college) and teenage boys are more likely to embrace a double standard, and then mature out of it as they see more of the world.

Region and environment might have something to do with it, too. I think that younger men (20s, 30s) with double-standards are more common in the Bible Belt, red states, or suburban and rural areas where many people have conservative political and religious backgrounds. And some are just flat-out rednecks, for want of a better word.

It's not a common attitude in urban areas, especially on the coasts, nor is it something that people tend to make an issue of in more liberal parts of the country, among more liberal company, particularly among people who are highly educated. That may sound elitist, but that has been my experience. At any rate, spouting off as the OP and some of the other men here have done would get them (politely) laughed right out of any party any of my friends, male or female, in D.C., New York, Chicago, and Boston would ever host, that's for sure.
You and your guy are older. My friend just called me last week, telling me how unhappy she is with this new girl (17) her son (also 17) has started seeing. She has heard from her daughter that this girl has been "around the block" several times. This bothers her tremendously. OTOH, her husband doesn't care because in his mind this girl is nothing more than a "good time". I'm also sure her husband is playing a very different tune with his daughter and conveying to her that she should be very, very selective. Double standard, yup... but even as a woman I agree with him. I don't think these perceptions, especially for the young, have or should change.
 
Old 07-16-2010, 07:53 AM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
20,602 posts, read 17,167,193 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solytaire View Post
Men CANT sleep with whoever they want...not even remotely close to anything of the sort. The vast vast majority of men, especially players, take what they can get...sleeping with whoever they want has never even been a remote possibility for well over 95% (this is a totally arbitrary statistic, used ad hoc for the point of emphasis- my point being: the overwhelming majority) of the male population...

While women have the ability to sleep with virtually any man they want, they will likely be judged negatively for sleeping with every man they want.
Okay, I can get behind this. I still think it's a mistake for a man to believe that saying, "I slept with a bunch of slores" is going to get him a quality relationship with a woman, and I do believe that's what most heterosexual men want regardless of what they say ... but.

I've been posting in other threads that there's nothing wrong with traditional manners and the mindset that having sex with a woman is a gift. No, it's not dangling a carrot in front of a mule, or throwing a good dog a bone; it's a spoken or unspoken statement of trust at a moment of extreme vulnerability. Yes, I like sex for sex, but I also recognize it for what it is. If sex is to have value, it has to be treated like it is valuable.

Just as a man wants a woman who will pass on his genes and not betray him, a woman wants a man who is faithful and not using up the family resources on other women's children. A man who has sex at any opportunity, particularly with women he despises and calls disgusting names, is not worthy of a woman's trust. He has no respect for himself, and she will not respect him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllAboutEve View Post
Maybe you see a correlation, and popular opinion (or should I say old popular opinion) says that there would be one, but from personal experience I have not found it to be true. Just look at one of our biggest celebrity idols, Angelina Jolie. For years she was touting how she had many different "lovers" and was in and out of lesbian relationships, did that keep Brad Pitt and every other man on the planet from wanting to be with her? No. Why not? After all, she certainly wasn't inhibiting herself like good wife material was she?
Quote:
Originally Posted by robee70 View Post
I doubt half the men that wanted to "be" with Angelina Jolie, wanted her for a wife or mother of their children. A man's fantasy does not always translate into their reality.
Robee is correct: men wanted to have sex with her, not marry her. Brad Pitt hasn't even married her.
 
Old 07-16-2010, 07:55 AM
 
5,148 posts, read 1,478,118 times
Reputation: 2865
VanillaG,

This book would answer a lot of your questions:
Amazon.com: Why Is Sex Fun?: The Evolution Of Human Sexuality (Science Masters)…
 
Old 07-16-2010, 08:14 AM
 
3,424 posts, read 3,214,540 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
Okay, I can get behind this. I still think it's a mistake for a man to believe that saying, "I slept with a bunch of slores" is going to get him a quality relationship with a woman, and I do believe that's what most heterosexual men want regardless of what they say ... but.

I've been posting in other threads that there's nothing wrong with traditional manners and the mindset that having sex with a woman is a gift. No, it's not dangling a carrot in front of a mule, or throwing a good dog a bone; it's a spoken or unspoken statement of trust at a moment of extreme vulnerability. Yes, I like sex for sex, but I also recognize it for what it is. If sex is to have value, it has to be treated like it is valuable.

Just as a man wants a woman who will pass on his genes and not betray him, a woman wants a man who is faithful and not using up the family resources on other women's children. A man who has sex at any opportunity, particularly with women he despises and calls disgusting names, is not worthy of a woman's trust. He has no respect for himself, and she will not respect him.
I agree with every last bit of this...and particularly the emboldened...which is why I make it clear that I do respect slores on their own merits...I wont be in a relationship with them, and they may not want to be in a relationship with me, but I respect them for what they do offer...and as individuals... Yet at the end of the day they are what they are.

Just as I may not want a relationship with another man, yet I do respect him as a person - likewise, the lack of desire for a relationship with a slore, does not inherently mean I dont respect her as an individual person.
 
Old 07-16-2010, 09:25 AM
 
12,353 posts, read 7,553,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustJulia View Post
Just as a man wants a woman who will pass on his genes and not betray him, a woman wants a man who is faithful and not using up the family resources on other women's children. A man who has sex at any opportunity, particularly with women he despises and calls disgusting names, is not worthy of a woman's trust. He has no respect for himself, and she will not respect him.

Hi JustJulia,

Monogamous sexual environment:

Two men find two women. Each man being very attracted to these women begin to sexually escalate. The men are rebuffed. The men then start taking their time while also sharing what they have. Like a house a man builds, he admires the affect he has had on a woman. He feels good that he has made her happy and that her life is better. He begins to even feel things like love. They soon enough do have sex and have 2.1 children.

Casual monogamy:
Two men find two women. Each man being very attracted to these women begin to sexually escalate. One man is rebuffed, but the other finds he gets sex. The former begins to commit while the ladder is in no hurry. They eventually have 2.1 children each. The children of the former graduate college earlier that the other.


Into the free zone:

Two men find two women. Each man being very attracted to these women begin to sexually escalate. One man is rebuffed, but the other finds he gets sex. It is because she likes sex. The other woman likes sex, but over time, and with the man who shows interest with more patience. Sooner or later the woman who likes sex, has sex with another man . The women and one man have 2.1 children, but for the man who's partner just likes sex, he only had 1.1 children.

Free for all:

Two men find two women. Each man being very attracted to these women begin to sexually escalate. Both get sex. One man decides to stay. Once again, this man's partner likes sex. He eventually also has 1.1 children while the woman has 2.1.

However the other man was repulsed after sex. After a rest he would show interest in sex again, but for some reason he did not want to commit because of this feeling. So he found another sex partner who also liked sex. It was the other man's partner. He began to settle into this life, even telling his friends how good the sex is with these babes. He even got a little rush calling them his hoes. Yet something kept him from committing, and he could not respect them. So, he figured he might keep looking. Both women had 2.1 children. One man had 1.1 children while the other man had 4.1 children. He had 2.1 with the woman he does not respect, one with the other man's regular, and since he was not quite satisfied, he had one more with another.

In casual sex environments, its adaptive for men who are repulsed by committing to women. Committing means Coo Coo while also making jetsam of his own Coo Coo efforts. It is maladaptive to commit. It is dangerous for men to begin to feel love in casual sex environments. In such an environment, the dislike men have for women must rise for men to properly adapt even as much as that 1.1 might be out there.

Many people have taken note that cads seem to think very poorly of women. They must; its part of the adaptation to keep them in circulation, taking advantage of sexual opportunities. However this is particularly the case when they are able to do it easily because she is a bigger Coo Coo threat and opportunity, so nature sends him a burst of dyspepsia at any idea of bonding.


I don't make judgments about it, but when casual sex goes up, misogyny and lack of commitment must rise just as we see today.

Its just a chess game to me. I played "the Russians" last night and went 2 games to 2. Those Russians are really good; they would see the logic as well.
 
Old 07-16-2010, 09:35 AM
 
8,681 posts, read 6,968,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avienne View Post
That may sound elitist, but that has been my experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCobb View Post
I guess this is the part where you make lots of assumptions, eh?
Reading is fundamental.
 
Old 07-16-2010, 09:52 AM
 
15 posts, read 12,642 times
Reputation: 16
Give respect and expect respect.
You will be loved by your own.
 
Old 07-16-2010, 09:57 AM
 
12,353 posts, read 7,553,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSizzle225 View Post
i'm drunk.....remind me to talk to you about this tomorrow though

i'm taking it you have a good back ground in biiology?
Hi JSizzle225,

I suppose. My roommate in college looked at me once and said I am always doing something. So I tend to be learning obsessive. My wife wants to know why I want to know everything. I say its because I don't. Though I always have to go out and do it. That gun powder/basement phase was probably not ideal. I always wondered what I could do with ground up ping pong balls. Right now its ethnobotony. I am eating some mayapples with some homemade yogurt. Now in the big city with all those fancy folk they may not eat something that has a divinely sweet pulp but bitter seeds. They go seedless with crappy pulp. I feel so manipulated. The pulp is exquisite, but I end up spitting those bitter seeds out. I wonder why that is? Though I am in a very large metro area...I wonder what happened to me?

BTW JSizzle, you are a strange bird too, but I think with a very big heart.
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