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Old 06-17-2008, 12:26 AM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,762 posts, read 40,021,896 times
Reputation: 18050

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimboburnsy View Post
While I certainly do not judge anyone for the lack of reproductive drive, I don't understand it. To me, it doesn't matter if you are a religious zealot or an atheist organic chemist - kids are kind of the whole point...

To live a complete life, it seems to me that you have to leave something behind. Everyone in your lineage all the way back to the start passed the torch, are you sure you want to let it go out?
But what if you know that your genes are not worth passing on? What if your family as some hereditary medical issue? My boyfriend's dad is an alcoholic with a nasty temper. His younger sister went into rehab at the age of 21 because she loved to drink too much. My boyfriend is okay with the drinking, but he makes a conscious effort to minimize his intake. But he does have his dad's short temper. Then on his mother's side, there are obesity issues. His mom and older sister have had that gastric bypass surgery to keep their weight down. My boyfriend is overweight, but he's been bicycling a lot this summer to get his weight down. My boyfriend also has ADD. Anyway, between his genes and his temper, he shouldn't be a biological father.

The animal part of us has more the drive to reproduce. But as humans, we are able to make our own choices as to how we want to live our lives. And if we were just wild animals, then when we are overpopulated, Mother Nature be able to correct the imbalance with predators, disease or famine to thin out our numbers. But with 20thc. medicine and other manmade inventions, we keep those population corrections at bay. So since we are able to artificially prevent decimation by disease or famine, it is irresponsible of us humans to keep increasing our population numbers.

One of the best things that we can do to help stop and then reverse the global warming trends is to stop increasing the number of humans on this planet and instead lessen those numbers. To reproduce is very selfish and shortsighted. And since humans don't change their habits until there is some terrible crisis, I am very glad that I didn't bring any children into this world because I think that our collective future is very dark. I think that in a few short decades, our planet is going to be in severe crisis and many people will be suffering from a lack of food and clean water. I feel very fortunate to have been born in 1958. I'm glad that I am not one of my nieces.
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:33 AM
 
1,875 posts, read 2,856,245 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
But what if you know that your genes are not worth passing on? What if your family as some hereditary medical issue? My boyfriend's dad is an alcoholic with a nasty temper. His younger sister went into rehab at the age of 21 because she loved to drink too much. My boyfriend is okay with the drinking, but he makes a conscious effort to minimize his intake. But he does have his dad's short temper. Then on his mother's side, there are obesity issues. His mom and older sister have had that gastric bypass surgery to keep their weight down. My boyfriend is overweight, but he's been bicycling a lot this summer to get his weight down. My boyfriend also has ADD. Anyway, between his genes and his temper, he shouldn't be a biological father.

The animal part of us has more the drive to reproduce. But as humans, we are able to make our own choices as to how we want to live our lives. And if we were just wild animals, then when we are overpopulated, Mother Nature be able to correct the imbalance with predators, disease or famine to thin out our numbers. But with 20thc. medicine and other manmade inventions, we keep those population corrections at bay. So since we are able to artificially prevent decimation by disease or famine, it is irresponsible of us humans to keep increasing our population numbers.

One of the best things that we can do to help stop and then reverse the global warming trends is to stop increasing the number of humans on this planet and instead lessen those numbers. To reproduce is very selfish and shortsighted. And since humans don't change their habits until there is some terrible crisis, I am very glad that I didn't bring any children into this world because I think that our collective future is very dark. I think that in a few short decades, our planet is going to be in severe crisis and many people will be suffering from a lack of food and clean water. I feel very fortunate to have been born in 1958. I'm glad that I am not one of my nieces.
Hey, thanks for your post on my thread on he parenting section. Its now closed because these people, these parents, were getting very heated and angry.
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:35 AM
 
Location: AR
564 posts, read 2,334,586 times
Reputation: 619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anu2 View Post
I am interested in seeing how many of you who do not currently have kids are interested in having kids. I personally have never really wanted any and a lot of people think I'm weird or selfish because of it. It has also been a problem in some of my relationships because in almost all cases, men who are interested in getting married are also interested in having children and the ones who don't want children claim they never want to marry. At the same time, I know quite a few married couples who do not want to have children so I know there are other people out there like me (want marriage but no kids)! When you respond, please also state your age, gender, whether or not you are currently married, and whether or not you are interested in getting married in the future. I'm curious to see what you have to say!
23, male, single, interested in getting married in the future, and want kids. Well, kid. I was an only child, and so was my Mom. I've never had more than one dog at a time, either, haha....I'm just used to that kind of life. I can't think of a better thing to do with my life than to raise a son or daughter...a little version of me. I can't wait to push my future son or daughter into soccer so hardcore that they hate me for it, lol.

Of course, I'll still wait until I'm completely done with college (2 1/2 years) and had at least a couple years to enjoy marriage without a crying child keeping me and my wife up every night. This is a joint decision that'll be made with my spouse. Just as long as it's not right out of college, haha.

These are all plans, though, and we all know how things changed. But this is my perfect situation version of it, at least. This is also assuming I find someone I care enough about to marry between now and 26-27....haha, I may be single until I'm 35. Who knows. All I know is what I want...whether it happens or not is up to God himself, I figure.
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Old 06-17-2008, 06:55 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
2,657 posts, read 8,007,212 times
Reputation: 4361
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimboburnsy View Post
To live a complete life, it seems to me that you have to leave something behind.

Ann Landers' famous "The Childless Couple"

There is nothing sadder than a childless couple. It breaks my heart to see them relaxing around swimming pools in Florida, sitting all suntanned and miserable on the decks of their boats -- trotting off to Europe like lonesome fools. It's an empty life. Nothing but money to spend, more time to enjoy and a whole lot less to worry about.


The poor childless couple are so wrapped up in themselves, you have to feel sorry for them. They don't fight over the child's discipline, don't blame each other for the child's most obnoxious characteristics, and they miss all the fun of doing without for the child's sake. They just go along, doing whatever they want, buying what they want and liking each other. It's a pretty pathetic picture.


Everyone should have children. No one should be allowed to escape the wonderful experience that accompanies each stage in the development of the young -- the happy memories of sleepless nights, coughing spells, tantrums, diaper rash, debts, "dipso" baby sitters, saturated mattresses, emergencies and never-ending crises.


How dismal is the peaceful home without the constant childish problems that make a well-rounded life and an early breakdown; the tender, thoughtful discussions when the report card reveals the progeny to be one step below a moron; the end-of-the-day reunions with all the joyful happenings recited like well-placed blows to the temples.


Children are worth it. Every moment of anxiety, every sacrifice, every complete collapse pays off as a fine, sturdy adolescent is reached. The feeling of reward the first time you took the boy hunting -- he didn't mean to shoot you, the lad was excited. Remember how he cried? How sorry he was? And how much better you felt after the blood transfusion? These are the times a man with a growing son treasures -- memories that are captured forever in the heart and the limp.


Think back to the night of romantic adventure when your budding daughter eloped with the village idiot. What childless couple ever shared in the stark realism of that drama? Aren't you a better man for having lived richly, fully, acquiring that tic in your left eye? Could a woman without children touch the strength and heroism of your wife as she tried to fling herself out of the bedroom window?


The childless couple live in a vacuum. They fill their lonely days with golf, vacation trips, dinner dates, civic affairs, tranquility, leisure and entertainment. There is a terrifying emptiness without children, but the childless couple are too comfortable to know it.


You just have to look at them to see what the years have done: He looks boyish, unlined and rested; she's slim, well-groomed and youthful. It isn't natural. If they had had kids, they'd look like the rest of us -- worn out, wrinkled and exhausted.
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Old 06-17-2008, 07:33 AM
 
Location: Chicago's burbs
1,016 posts, read 4,529,554 times
Reputation: 920
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAFan View Post
Hey, thanks for your post on my thread on he parenting section. Its now closed because these people, these parents, were getting very heated and angry.
Um, go back and check that thread. It wasn't closed because of the parents. It was closed because the childfree were calling parents breeders and talking about how much they hate children. (I don't care whether someone wants children or not, but they are human beings afterall, and deserve some respect.) The thread is now reopen if everyone can play nice.
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Old 06-17-2008, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Visitation between Wal-Mart & Home Depot
8,307 posts, read 38,670,140 times
Reputation: 7184
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
But what if you know that your genes are not worth passing on? What if your family as some hereditary medical issue? My boyfriend's dad is an alcoholic with a nasty temper. His younger sister went into rehab at the age of 21 because she loved to drink too much. My boyfriend is okay with the drinking, but he makes a conscious effort to minimize his intake. But he does have his dad's short temper. Then on his mother's side, there are obesity issues. His mom and older sister have had that gastric bypass surgery to keep their weight down. My boyfriend is overweight, but he's been bicycling a lot this summer to get his weight down. My boyfriend also has ADD. Anyway, between his genes and his temper, he shouldn't be a biological father.

The animal part of us has more the drive to reproduce. But as humans, we are able to make our own choices as to how we want to live our lives. And if we were just wild animals, then when we are overpopulated, Mother Nature be able to correct the imbalance with predators, disease or famine to thin out our numbers. But with 20thc. medicine and other manmade inventions, we keep those population corrections at bay. So since we are able to artificially prevent decimation by disease or famine, it is irresponsible of us humans to keep increasing our population numbers.

One of the best things that we can do to help stop and then reverse the global warming trends is to stop increasing the number of humans on this planet and instead lessen those numbers. To reproduce is very selfish and shortsighted. And since humans don't change their habits until there is some terrible crisis, I am very glad that I didn't bring any children into this world because I think that our collective future is very dark. I think that in a few short decades, our planet is going to be in severe crisis and many people will be suffering from a lack of food and clean water. I feel very fortunate to have been born in 1958. I'm glad that I am not one of my nieces.
I certainly wasn't expecting the general response to be this vigorous. I still do not judge anyone for their decisions, but I just realized that its pointless to argue with people who embrace holistic medicine, acupuncture, chiropractors, colloidal silver toddies and a childless lifestyle, to name a few.

Miu,

There have been some limited forays into what you described in your first paragraph, I think it was called eugenics. I can understand the decision not to procreate if someone has proteus syndrome or knows positively that he or she is a carrier for some terrible genetic disease, but rationalizing based on a family inclination to drink or a predisposition for being overweight is different. That is eugenics. You aren't doomed by your genes; its like you said, humans have consciousness that is more powerful than instinct. Either way, I never said it wasn't about personal choice and I still will not judge, I just won't understand.

I will judge the accusation that childbearing is selfish. That's overtly offensive to me on several levels. If I have two kids I've had a net impact of zero on this planet's bio-load. That's reasonable. If you want to try to make me understand your position, insulting me isn't going to make much headway- It's just going to make me want to tell you to go p|ss up a rope.

Last edited by jimboburnsy; 06-17-2008 at 09:06 AM..
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Tucson
42,831 posts, read 87,933,531 times
Reputation: 22814
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverwing View Post
Everyone should have children. No one should be allowed to escape the wonderful experience that accompanies each stage in the development of the young -- the happy memories of sleepless nights, coughing spells, tantrums, diaper rash, debts, "dipso" baby sitters, saturated mattresses, emergencies and never-ending crises.
That's an unreasonable statement. While I like children OK (mostly when they’re very young and cute; before opening their lil’ mouths and saying “no, no, no” and “gimme, gimme” ) and was even planning on having one in the past, I really never looked forward to any of the "joys" described above.

I wouldn't mind renting a baby for about a year.
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:31 PM
 
1,875 posts, read 2,856,245 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by sierraAZ View Post
That's an unreasonable statement. While I like children OK (mostly when they’re very young and cute; before opening their lil’ mouths and saying “no, no, no” and “gimme, gimme” ) and was even planning on having one in the past, I really never looked forward to any of the "joys" described above.

I wouldn't mind renting a baby for about a year.
I don't agree that everyone should have children. Kids aren't for everyone. I know I would never be fit for a parent.
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Tucson
42,831 posts, read 87,933,531 times
Reputation: 22814
Quote:
Originally Posted by LAFan View Post
I know I would never be fit for a parent.
I've never seen anybody questioning THAT!
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Old 06-17-2008, 12:46 PM
 
30,907 posts, read 32,851,374 times
Reputation: 26919
Quote:
Originally Posted by sierraAZ View Post
I really never looked forward to any of the "joys" described above.

I wouldn't mind renting a baby for about a year.
Okay! What address can I ship him to?
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