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Old 10-01-2010, 05:01 PM
 
19,081 posts, read 11,757,382 times
Reputation: 13213
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post

You're missing the point. Simply put, women are attracted to many things beyond physical appearance, so a man's looks play a much smaller role in his success/failure with the opposite sex than a woman's looks do.
This is a mantra you guys keep telling yourselves, and I can understand that. Be clear, beautiful people date beautiful people, generally.

Quote:
If an average-looking man works hard, gets into a good business school, and then gets a good-paying job, then he will see the quality and quantity of women he attracts increase. If an average-looking woman works hard, gets a business school degree, and gets a high-paying job, it will not cause men to see her as any more attractive.
It doesn't matter because likes are still going to go with likes. A smart and successful man is not going to be dating a booby bimbo. And this average guy of yours that gets into a good school is going to date an average female going to the same or similar school. I suppose this goes back to level of taste, class, perspective. Everything above you is going to look real good, and everything below won't. Your specific location on the perspective ladder is just yours.

Quote:
She's basically stuck with the looks she was born with, and unless that changes, the amount and quality of attention she receives from men will not change. The point is that men can compensate for a lack of physical attractiveness by having things like money, fame, or game.
You're, again, missing the forest for your tree. It's all pretty inter-related. To start, you will not have that much money, fame, or game to reach beyond your station. None of us will. Any way, most people are average looking- to state the obvious. And it should also be noted that looks are highly dependent on health and wealth. Cinderella stories have little to with reality. You will date within your class and I'll go as far as to say that this will not change with a meager 50-75-100-120k salary and all the game in the world. Your game will work for the women in your class, nothing more. But, sure, physical beauty will play a role. And it plays a role for both genders.

For example, I'll do a quick google search for "wedding day" and I bet they will all be on the same level looks-wise...







These were just random searches. That's how it goes.

Quote:
Nobody said the pickings were slim for beautiful, educated women. The code word here is "beautiful." Men dig beauty. If there's anything that makes the pickings "slim" for an attractive and successful woman, it's the fact that she is biologically programmed to want a man that has a status that is higher than her own. Obviously, the higher a woman's status rises, the fewer men she can date.
Well, there are a lot of fantastic men out there. No amount of game is going to change that fact.

By the way, women dig beauty as well.

eta: and please don't bring up biology unless you're prepared to have an in depth discussion, which I imagine you are not versed well enough in the sciences to conceive an approach. It makes you look silly. Nutz, too.

Last edited by Braunwyn; 10-01-2010 at 05:23 PM..
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Old 10-01-2010, 05:05 PM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
20,783 posts, read 18,031,047 times
Reputation: 29067
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Whether he was blessed with charm naturally, learned it by observing other men in bars, or learned it by reading a blog, what difference does it make? A man could have worked with a PUA, like Alex Hitchens, and you would never know. All that matters is the end product: attraction. That's like me getting upset if my girl took out a middle school picture showing she was fat and then told me that she had to exercise to look the way she does now.
If a PUA believes the Sixteen Commandments of **** (which I quoted earlier about reciprocity), or even most of them, then I will not date him. You seem pretty well-versed in what that guy (or those guys--I honestly have no idea who is behind that blog) says, so I assume you're read it. Can you point me to something that would help me believe that a guy UNDER that learned charm doesn't despise me and think I "want to subordinate [myself] to a worthy manís life purpose, to help him achieve that purpose with [my] feminine support, and to follow the path he lays out"? I admit that I support my husband and submit to him in some things, but he also submits to me. He is not my master, nor do I need a master.

My finding out that the charming man whose company I have enjoyed is actually a PUA is not like learning that the pretty woman used to be fat. It's like learning that the pretty woman is actually a man.

I haven't read anything that leads me to believe that the charmer is a good man underneath, because all the coaching stuff I have read says otherwise. I am willing to read other sites, if the ones that are regularly pointed to by PUAs on this board are too extreme.
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Old 10-01-2010, 05:44 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, New York
16,339 posts, read 8,871,072 times
Reputation: 5640
Brauwyn,

You're still missing the point. To most women, there is a HUGE difference between an average-looking heart surgeon and an attractive factory worker. For most men, a woman's occupation does not make them any more or any less attracted to her. A fat paycheck and a powerful job will not give a man a hard on. Women, on the other hand, feel sexually attracted to powerful men. Their attraction is not as visually stimulated as it is for men.

What do you mean "date beyond his station?". Men want to date beautiful women. "Dating up" a league for a man does not mean dating a maid one day and then a princess the next. It means dating a 6 one day and then dating an 8 the next.
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Old 10-01-2010, 06:00 PM
 
19,081 posts, read 11,757,382 times
Reputation: 13213
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Brauwyn,

You're still missing the point.
A point you have yet to substantiate.

Quote:
To most women, there is a HUGE difference between an average-looking heart surgeon and an attractive factory worker. For most men, a woman's occupation does not make them any more or any less attracted to her.
This is what you people keep saying. It does not speak to reality. If you are unattractive, you're mate will most likely be unattractive. If you have a lot of money, you're mate will most likely have a lot of money. As far as occupation and attraction goes, intelligent men are attracted to intelligent women. period. Typically, the occupation follows.

Quote:
A fat paycheck and a powerful job will not give a man a hard on. Women, on the other hand, feel sexually attracted to powerful men. Their attraction is not as visually stimulated as it is for men.
I will agree that these are two sides of the same coin. A fat paycheck and powerful job that arouses a woman physically from lower a SES background and a beautiful woman that is clearly out of a man's league that arouses him are just that. Aroused. You will not get the girl. And the girl will not get him...most of the time. I don't know how else to convey that rather simple life point.

Quote:
What do you mean "date beyond his station?". Men want to date beautiful women. "Dating up" a league for a man does not mean dating a maid one day and then a princess the next. It means dating a 6 one day and then dating an 8 the next.
Station as in class, which is a matter of quality. Again, what you consider a 6 or an 8 would be beneath another man and above the next. eta: and most likely you will end up with the prettiest girl you can find of your ilk and the girl will end up with the prettiest boy she can find of her ilk. They will be equally pretty. That's why I did the RANDOM 'wedding day' google search, which I would like you to address.
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Old 10-01-2010, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Fort Worth, TX
9,400 posts, read 7,481,022 times
Reputation: 6060
The impression I'm getting from this thread is that I'm ****ed since I'm not the most attractive guy (although I don't think I'm ugly) nor am I a power player (and frankly my career aspirations don't translate to six figure income, at least not for a long-ass while).
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Old 10-01-2010, 06:28 PM
 
Location: The Hall of Justice
20,783 posts, read 18,031,047 times
Reputation: 29067
No, you're not ****ed.
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Old 10-01-2010, 06:29 PM
 
Location: Fort Worth, TX
9,400 posts, read 7,481,022 times
Reputation: 6060
Well it seems that the argument right now is whether women are attracted to men based on looks, status or both. Or men with 'game' which I honestly lack because I don't have that type of personality nor have I ever been taught in psychological manipulation.
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Old 10-01-2010, 06:40 PM
 
4,384 posts, read 1,833,250 times
Reputation: 1612
You have to find your own niche. Think to yourself who you want, and what kind of woman fits you best.
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Old 10-01-2010, 07:04 PM
 
Location: NYC area
3,486 posts, read 3,270,684 times
Reputation: 3739
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDC View Post
Well it seems that the argument right now is whether women are attracted to men based on looks, status or both. Or men with 'game' which I honestly lack because I don't have that type of personality nor have I ever been taught in psychological manipulation.
Whatever you do, please don't let PUA frauds relieve you of your savings. Seriously.

Everyone is attracted to looks. It doesn't mean that only tens get to have satisfying relationships. The impression that looks create -- whether good or bad -- wears off quite quickly, and other stuff kicks in: your intelligence, your manners, your interests. Believe when reasonable people tell you that like is attracted to like. Do not manipulate people -- it's wrong, and it is such a huge, irreversible turnoff, you are guaranteed to lose the very women who appeal to you most because they'll see you as a creep.

"Status" is a nebulous concept, and in dating, it's virtually meaningless -- although I don't know about the dregs of society, it might be important to them. Accomplishment is what makes people interesting and fascinating.
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Old 10-01-2010, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Fort Worth, TX
9,400 posts, read 7,481,022 times
Reputation: 6060
That's part of my problem, my accomplishments are all very average. I get average grades, I have the interests of the average 19 year old male, I've always held average jobs (no fancy internships at federal research institutes or big-name lawfirms or for politicians). That certainly didn't help in high school where I was surrounded by above-average people. It doesn't help in college where I am the average, nor does it help in the city I live in where what would be a major accomplishment in many cities is considered as basic an accomplishment as graduating high school.
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