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The problem with using "nice" as a reason to deserve anything is that abusers and predators use that strategy in the beginning of a relationship. They try to prove they are nice and can be trusted.
If she was hot it would. The things a man would do for a "pleasant" woman. Bad analogy.
The fact still remains that it's nearly universal that women want men who add excitement to their lives.
The fact is however, that most of these women are in no way exciting themselves. Taking responsibilities for your woes is very healthy, but sometimes it is another person's fault.
I think women's expectations are unequal in the current dating paradigm. They want more than they give on average. Especially in the beginning of a relationship
If she were hot, I would say so. "What's she like?" "She's gorgeous, you'll like her." I maintain that if "nice guy" or "nice girl" is how people consistently refer to you, then that's the best thing you have going for you ... and that's not much.
You may be right that it's a bigger deal when talking about men. Of course men want "sweet," but they also want "pretty." There are plenty of pleasant women with unpleasant looks for the choosing.
I never thought of myself as a "nice guy". I've always simply been myself. However, I've been married twice, and both times, I've been taken advantage of. Far beyond what might be reasonable. (And, it's the women that complain about being "taken for granted") To the point that, today, I AM angry and hostile, and I resent it very much. I understand that there are quite a number of women in this area that would like to get close to me today. I guess a couple of them have realized that it's not going to happen. They seem to have given up. I always kept myself at a little distance, and while they still smile and wave, it looks like they've decided to move on. Call it "passive retaliation" if you wish, but no woman gets to do that to me ever again.
Okay. So this thread doesn't apply to you--this thread is about men who say, "I am such a nice guy. Why don't women like me?" That's not you. I'm sorry you had some rough marriages, though.
If she were hot, I would say so. "What's she like?" "She's gorgeous, you'll like her." I maintain that if "nice guy" or "nice girl" is how people consistently refer to you, then that's the best thing you have going for you ... and that's not much.
You may be right that it's a bigger deal when talking about men. Of course men want "sweet," but they also want "pretty." There are plenty of pleasant women with unpleasant looks for the choosing.
I care more about personality than looks any day.
Give me a "nice" girl over a "pretty" one any day...and I'd be willing to bet that I, at least, would find her to be pretty--maybe even beautiful.
Much better than the stuck up snob that thinks the whole world revolves around her because of good genes or something.
From what I've seen the qualities that make men popular across the board with women are largly superficial.
Looks, comfortable banter and money. Ghandi was a wonderful guy but .....
To those worthy guys whose gifts are not obvious I want to say this:
Your en masse palatability to femalekind is irrelevant. You only need to impress one.
And be yourself. Unless that requires a blowtorch*.
Nerd love is awesome!
Let me see if I can explain what Julia and others of us are saying...
YES, good men can of course be nice.
But we are talking about guys who describe themselves as "nice guys".
In reality those betamanlets are whiners and anything but really nice in their core beings.
They are actually weasely and wussy.
Being "nice" is the excuse they hide behind for why bad or wrong things keep happening to them.
They look to blame all failures in life on other people, not matter what it is.
They have no concept of their own contribution to where they find themselves (alone).
They resist the mature process of taking personal responsibility for their own lives and futures. To a self-described nice guy it's so much easier to say "nice guys always finish last ".
Now do you get it?
Weasley wussy immature irresponsible falures.
Not to mention "betamanlets". Beta as in b quality. Manlet as in man like.
Smaller, resembeling a man. Not quite a man.
I think we have discovered yet another gender!
How many is that now?
The problem with using "nice" as a reason to deserve anything is that abusers and predators use that strategy in the beginning of a relationship. They try to prove they are nice and can be trusted.
Yes. And good looking azzholes can be trusted. This is the way it is and it's pointless to expect it to change. Nobody believes the women who they've used because in our society, TV has convinced most that for people to be good, they must look good.
They'll believe anything about people, especially men who don't meet society's standards. They are almost all "abusers and predators" and the rest are obviously losers.
This line irks me a bit. I've noticed that the most of the women I've dated expect the man to introduce excitement into the relationship. This is all well and good, but the women rarely try to reciprocate said excitement. It's up to the "good man" to plan all these exciting/romantic/unique once-in-a-lifetime experiences and the woman's duty is just to show up and judge whether or not he can amaze her enough to keep her interest. If the man isn't amazing/creative enough he's labeled as the bland nice guy and the woman moves on.
That excitement is vital in the beginning of the relationship, but why does it become the man's duty? Often times it can mean the difference between avoiding the nice guy label and attaining the good man label. I wonder if there's an equivalent for women?
I agree. There should be some excitement early, but there should be some enjoyment of the simple things where you can both be laid back and enjoy each other's company casually...otherwise called "being real".
There are also some women (did not say all or most) that will not call an interesting romantic experience "excitement" unless a large amount of $$$$ are spent. A good conversation at a quiet mid-scale restaurant followed by a casual stroll afterwards should be appreciated and considered exciting.
I can't say I have any sympathy on this one, particularly since it happens to had been a sore subject for me. For one thing, this is not YOUR house; it's your house TOGETHER; for another, the house/home! is traditionally the woman's realm and there are very few (if any) women who would put up with a man controlling this environment. As you can tell, I'm not one one of them.
I think you can at least agree that she should not have vandalized the car.
You're missing the point of Julia's example. All you know about this hypothetical woman is that she's nice. Is that alone enough to make you want to meet her?
Maybe you would just meet her at a Starbucks for 30-40 minutes and go form there. I have had the opposite type thing where a person was basically described as almost "the best thing since sliced bread" (paraphrasing)and she fell short of that. Who wouldn't?
It is probably better not to have the expectations raised unrealistically. So I am not sure the more understated description is a negative thing. Then you don't expect as much and may end up pleased with meeting them. Having said that, it would be nice to have more description than just "nice" (pun intended); maybe how long they lived in the area and one of their interests/hobbies (example: she likes tennis and is pretty good at it).
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Yeah, but how do you really feel?
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