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I don't disagree with anything you espoused on your last response. I still think a prenup would insulate me from punitive economic outcomes to a marital disolution. I don't think only bad pickers end up divorced. Bunch of unhappy marriages in the "50% still married figure". Married doesn't mean they are in a genuine relationship. So that skews the statistics.
I agree that marriage doesn't imply genuine or health. Clearly, that's not the case for many. I just don't think that people change all that much. When two people don't have anything going in and subsequently build assets whiles married, well, to the best of my knowledge a prenup isn't going to do much good. I wish you luck with your situation. I don't blame you for being pissed. I couldn't fathom the betrayal.
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I think I'm just as pragmatic as you are when it comes to the marriage proposition. I don't however feel as confident in the surety of my "choices" as you seem to be about your spouse. I wish you the best in that endeavor.
If he were someone else I could get royally screwed. I am technically more financially invested in my marriage. I will probably always earn more than my husband, which isn't much, and that's ok. I've know my dh for a long time. We were good friends before we married and we're family now. I've never been as sure about anything in my life. He's so devoted.
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I don't think a prenup is that unreasonable of a request. I do consider animosity towards the idea of a prenup one of your "indicators" that warn against the wisdom of pursuing marriage with said person. I guess to each their own on that one. But yeah I do agree with you on the pragmatism of "picking better". I feel if I was a woman, the same spiel would be received with acceptance and atta girls. Espousing the same as a male is viewed with contempt. That's a slippery slope, but that's for another day.
I do take away something I find very agreeable with your position. do not let a female guilt you out of your pragmatism, you're spot on on that one. Good luck!
There shouldn't be any guilt about doing whatever it is you need to do. Ime, women with their shyte together don't need to guilt a man into anything. So, there's no need to put up with baloney.
Again, I'm fine with the idea that they PERSONALLY don't agree. What I don't like is how they make it out like I have absolutely nothing to offer ANYONE. Universalizing their beliefs.
I don't think it would bother you if you were really happy with your life 'cause I don't think this stuff really bothers happy people much, if at all.
This is just a guess, but I think you're actually a little bored with your life and too fearful/lazy/unwilling to push yourself out of your confort zone...and people pick up on that. The fact that you don't earn a lot of money is just one symptom of something bigger.
If you want to know why I think this, it's because I'm a little like this and I see a lot of myself in some of your posts. The difference is I know I have these tendencies and know that I have to either 1. accept the complete consequences of it or 2. push myself out of my comfort zone. Life is a lot happier this way.
Last edited by mysticaltyger; 02-02-2011 at 06:14 AM..
Originally Posted by hindsight2020;17682314
Jesus, how simpler can it be explained people? Enough already with the "meh prenups are for rich people" NOOO. Prenups are for [U
working people[/u]. You know why? Because of diminishing marginal utility. Your last dollar has inherently lesser utility than your first one. A rich man's upper half wealth (the one the wife will rob him of) has less utility than his bottom half. But, as opposed to every working stiff out there, the rich man's wealth don't put him close to the cost of living line, the line where a divorce creates a financial hardship in order to maintain a nominal living standard.
Unfortunately, the middle class and poor don't get this kind of stuff, which is why so many live payday to payday and/or in debt.
The difference between rich & working class is the mindset.
I had to look up "diminishing marginal utility." Is that the uncomfortable feeling I get when I might have to dip into my savings or spend the money that I meant to save? I usually correct my spending habit before that happens.
Sorry but we all do. Size of a bank account (or what we'd guess it to be) is definitely VERY influential in how we view others. I guarantee just dressing different (looking poor and looking rich) will INSTANTLY change how people treat you. So to say it doesn't matter is ridiculous and naive.
However saying if its right to do that, of course not. There are plenty of rich people that are horrible and i wouldn't want to know them. And theres plenty of great poor people. However 1st impressions matter and many people dont give others a chance after that. I think I personally do, but am still wary... sorry im still human =/
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TK im sorry you feel you were attacked but there are several reasons. One this is the internet. simple as that. Two, class prejudice is probably the strongest prejudice in all of history. So as idealistic as having an equally treated society sounds, I think that its not gonna happen sorry. I dont see most rich people being ok with hanging out with poor people all the time. If you want acceptance then I suggest you stick to people of similar mentality/socioeconomic. Its just the nature of people dude. I think also religious environments might be more class equal (of course im talking about the "good" ones).
Yes - whether we want to admit it or not. Working women for example, no matter how badly they want a date for the weekend will hang out at the homeless shelter looking for one. Working men don't try to meet women at the welfare office or want to go into the housing projects to pick up their girlfriend.
Class matters more than race, ethnicity and just about everything whether we want to admit it or not. No one wants to show up at their class reunion with someone who can only afford donated clothes and missing front teeth because they can't afford a dentist or dentures no matter how great the personality.
This is true only once you've hit a minimum threshold. The 2nd guy you mentioned was still financially responsible and it didn't sound like he was living in poverty or semi-poverty.
Not saying he was in poverty, but if you put two people side by side - the side with the most money isn't always the winner if their personality sucks. It was simply one of many examples of an even wider financial threshold I could give you.
I've dated rich jacknuts and poor jacknuts and it really does come down to personality every single time.
It even works that way with simply my friends. There is one girl I was friends with for a long time, since high school and I'd stop and see them when I was on my way to my aunt's for vacation, who wasn't that well off, but who I would much rather spend my time with and had fun with. She constantly talked about money and how they were better off than his parents and all this and that and the spa and country club. I made decent coin and grew up way better off than she did financially and there is no way I would ever talk the way she did all the time. Our friendship dwindled down to the occassional Christmas card. I have another friend who I would say is on equal par, if not better, with family and finances as my other 'friend,' but her personality is so different and she and I have been friends for years and years. Again, personality will trump your wallet every time.
I don't think it would bother you if you were really happy with your life 'cause I don't think this stuff really bothers happy people much, if at all.
This is just a guess, but I think you're actually a little bored with your life and too fearful/lazy/unwilling to push yourself out of your confort zone...and people pick up on that. The fact that you don't earn a lot of money is just one symptom of something bigger.
If you want to know why I think this, it's because I'm a little like this and I see a lot of myself in some of your posts. The difference is I know I have these tendencies and know that I have to either 1. accept the complete consequences of it or 2. push myself out of my comfort zone. Life is a lot happier this way.
I'm happy with my life. I'm not happy when people choose to attack me for how I choose to live it, or attack people that they have no personal knowledge of, that I have been involved with. People are the issue, not how I live. And that's why--for the most part--I really want nothing to do with other people, because people are the problem.
I'm happy with my life. I'm not happy when people choose to attack me for how I choose to live it, or attack people that they have no personal knowledge of, that I have been involved with. People are the issue, not how I live. And that's why--for the most part--I really want nothing to do with other people, because people are the problem.
For myself, I'm good right where I'm at.
You find self-validation by your ability to be alone?
I'm happy with my life. I'm not happy when people choose to attack me for how I choose to live it, or attack people that they have no personal knowledge of, that I have been involved with. People are the issue, not how I live. And that's why--for the most part--I really want nothing to do with other people, because people are the problem.
For myself, I'm good right where I'm at.
I have to agree there. I abandoned my own thread in the parenting forum yesterday for that very reason (it's no wonder today's kids are so jacked up). I realize there is a higher concentration of dumb and crappy here, but I am finding that people, in general, are unhappy and love to hide behind the perceived flaws of others, to the point of making stuff up.
However, T, you have expressed what you think about their take on relationships and you were wrong as well. It really is no different when you classify relationships as being either/or when people approach their relationships in a multitude of ways. When you reduce spending money on someone to it being all about the money, for example, you become that closed minded person you are complaining about.
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