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I see your point. But I don't quite understand why though, being interested in a serious / steady / long-term style relationship with a girl up front, is the interpreted as the same as "desperate"? Incidentally, that is the *only kind* of relationship (i.e., long-term) I have been interested in, my whole life. I have never been interested in anything shorter-term or casual.
I'm all for getting to know them gradually, over time as you mentioned (with long-term intentions). But, I will say again though, b/c it bears repeating: it's not about misplaced dreams of "getting married" to them, after only a first date -- it's about dreaming of a first date turning into a second date, and a second date to a third date; until one has successfully built up to a long-term relationship.
You're missing my point (or perhaps I'm not expressing it clearly) with the seriousness upfront. I'm not saying you need to give off the idea you are looking for a short-term fling and it's perfectly fine to answer honestly that you would eventually like to marry one day if/when you meet the right person.
My concern is that until you KNOW the girl, you are actually in love with the idea of a long-term relationship with Mrs. Right. That girl's face might be plastered on Mrs. Right in your dreams, but you don't really know enough about the girl to know if that sort of thing would even be feasible between you two until you've dated for awhile (say a month or two at a minimum.) Now, is it possible to get a great vibe from someone? Sure. But that surface level attraction you feel at first is very different from really knowing the person after dating them for 3 months.
I think many girls get scared off when men declare their undying love or a freaky-intense attraction within the first few dates. Why? It's too soon for anything sincere to have grown. Your first date should not be spent in pursuit of the second date. Your first date should be spent getting to know the girl, seeing if there is actually anything there between you two where you might want a second date. Then the second should be spent getting to know her further. You should be just as willing to reject her if she's not what you're looking for, but right now I sense that you go into these dates so eager to find Mrs. Right that you come on too strong and that will scare most girls off. No one is saying be a player who doesn't care. But expressions of feeling that come too soon to be sincere will send up red flags for most women. They realize it's all about finding Mrs. Right, not getting to know them as a person. No one wants that.
With respect toward your views and account below intended, mixing friendship and love (as I had done in the past, for many years), gave me nothing but disaster and heartache, as I had also mentioned in several past threads.
Simply put, female friends I befriended, with sincere goals of friendship and also sometimes hopefully something more than that in the future, all placed me into a "friend zone" box. Ask them for anything more, sometimes after years of being friends with them, and they would get all weirded out, and run for the hills. Which only caused me to also lose a friend, and someone that I cared about. There were only two exceptions ever to this rule, all within the past 2 years, where the girl herself specifically asked *me*, for more than friendship, with *her* -- but it doesn't work the other way around though; never has, in all my 30+ years
Can some guys and gals start out as friends, then become more? Sure; happens all the time. Can it happen if a girl places her guy friend, into the friend zone? That's nearly a statistical impossibility.
I tried mixing friendship and love for many years; with an absolute dismal record of failure. Not gonna make that mistake again. If I like a girl romantically, that's how I'm going to approach her -- in a romantic way. If I want to be friends with a girl? Then I'm *only* her friend (although as mentioned in 2 previous exceptions, if *she* expresses the want for more than friendship, I'm all for that). Not gonna put my heart on the line like that, only to inevitably be friend-zoned, have my heart stomped on, and only lose a friend that I care about anyway.
I don't know what to tell you. You MUST meet a woman as a person, a friend, a confidente and then move on to wife and lover. You want to go from 0 to 100 miles with a woman and want them to be your wife off the bat. Sorry, I feel that you are setting yourself up for failure. I do know that you said before that it was disastrous in your past experience of being friends first.
But I am telling you to be realistic and be friends first and then gradually go to another level. You, unfortunately, I believe are forcing the issue of marriage with these women and you are scaring them off.
No Christian woman wants to date a man who cannot be a spiritual leader of the household because of his "love-shyness."
Moderator cut: Mod cut: Rude.
Please keep religion out of this. What a woman wants in a man is not all based on religion. Some Christian women may like it and think it is cute, some may not. Also, a "spiritual leader" of the household? Just b/c someone is shy when it comes to romance doesn't mean that he or she is shy when it comes to other things in life.
You're missing my point (or perhaps I'm not expressing it clearly) with the seriousness upfront. I'm not saying you need to give off the idea you are looking for a short-term fling and it's perfectly fine to answer honestly that you would eventually like to marry one day if/when you meet the right person.
My concern is that until you KNOW the girl, you are actually in love with the idea of a long-term relationship with Mrs. Right. That girl's face might be plastered on Mrs. Right in your dreams, but you don't really know enough about the girl to know if that sort of thing would even be feasible between you two until you've dated for awhile (say a month or two at a minimum.) Now, is it possible to get a great vibe from someone? Sure. But that surface level attraction you feel at first is very different from really knowing the person after dating them for 3 months.
I think many girls get scared off when men declare their undying love or a freaky-intense attraction within the first few dates. Why? It's too soon for anything sincere to have grown. Your first date should not be spent in pursuit of the second date. Your first date should be spent getting to know the girl, seeing if there is actually anything there between you two where you might want a second date. Then the second should be spent getting to know her further. You should be just as willing to reject her if she's not what you're looking for, but right now I sense that you go into these dates so eager to find Mrs. Right that you come on too strong and that will scare most girls off. No one is saying be a player who doesn't care. But expressions of feeling that come too soon to be sincere will send up red flags for most women. They realize it's all about finding Mrs. Right, not getting to know them as a person. No one wants that.
Second paragraph is so true and guys sometimes don't realize that they're coming on too strong or too intense. That will scare most if not all women away.
It does come across as desperate to start talking about a date being a potential beloved wife someday. I would run as fast as I could, if a guy talked like that. Also, you think too much about YOU. Focus on others for a change and see what happens. You keep speaking of how YOU have to be virginal on your wedding day...why do you keep harping on it? Do it if that is what you want, but it is not something everyone wants to hear about. Also, why do you believe you have to let a girl know everything when you are just getting to know her? Only when and if something actually becomes a relationship should you open up and even then, there are some things best kept to oneself.
You're missing my point (or perhaps I'm not expressing it clearly) with the seriousness upfront. I'm not saying you need to give off the idea you are looking for a short-term fling and it's perfectly fine to answer honestly that you would eventually like to marry one day if/when you meet the right person.
My concern is that until you KNOW the girl, you are actually in love with the idea of a long-term relationship with Mrs. Right. That girl's face might be plastered on Mrs. Right in your dreams, but you don't really know enough about the girl to know if that sort of thing would even be feasible between you two until you've dated for awhile (say a month or two at a minimum.) Now, is it possible to get a great vibe from someone? Sure. But that surface level attraction you feel at first is very different from really knowing the person after dating them for 3 months.
I think many girls get scared off when men declare their undying love or a freaky-intense attraction within the first few dates. Why? It's too soon for anything sincere to have grown. Your first date should not be spent in pursuit of the second date. Your first date should be spent getting to know the girl, seeing if there is actually anything there between you two where you might want a second date. Then the second should be spent getting to know her further. You should be just as willing to reject her if she's not what you're looking for, but right now I sense that you go into these dates so eager to find Mrs. Right that you come on too strong and that will scare most girls off. No one is saying be a player who doesn't care. But expressions of feeling that come too soon to be sincere will send up red flags for most women. They realize it's all about finding Mrs. Right, not getting to know them as a person. No one wants that.
A good post. I expect it also applies to the women that go into a relationship with too much need that the guy be a Mr. Right.
Knight is a romantic whose type is prone to such behavior. I doubt he would reject any women that did not reject him first, whether as a friend or a love interest. Never could understand the romantic mindset myself.
Please keep religion out of this. What a woman wants in a man is not all based on religion. Some Christian women may like it and think it is cute, some may not. Also, a "spiritual leader" of the household? Just b/c someone is shy when it comes to romance doesn't mean that he or she is shy when it comes to other things in life.
You are aware that Knight claims to be a Christian? Or you were just on this last page and instead of reading previous pages, you came to my comment and tried to make a point? Reading doesn't hurt you know.
It does come across as desperate to start talking about a date being a potential beloved wife someday. I would run as fast as I could, if a guy talked like that. Also, you think too much about YOU. Focus on others for a change and see what happens. You keep speaking of how YOU have to be virginal on your wedding day...why do you keep harping on it? Do it if that is what you want, but it is not something everyone wants to hear about. Also, why do you believe you have to let a girl know everything when you are just getting to know her? Only when and if something actually becomes a relationship should you open up and even then, there are some things best kept to oneself.
Referencing bold content above:
Why do I talk about the pre-marital celibacy thing? B/c typically in modern society, ppl will usually assume that a male is interested in physical relations as a first priority, and marriage as a second -- and so I mention my pre-marital celibacy goals to clarify and differentiate my own relationship objectives from most other guys my age. Also part of the reason is b/c in previous threads, some ppl may have thought that I had dishonorable (i.e., physical only) intentions toward some love interests.
To answer your second question: I don't necessarily tell a girl "everything" about myself, on a first or even a second date. Naturally, those things take time to disclose. In fact, I was in many circumstances where I went for months, before disclosing those details to potential love interests. I never said I talk about everything, on the first several dates.
You are aware that Knight claims to be a Christian? Or you were just on this last page and instead of reading previous pages, you came to my comment and tried to make a point? Reading doesn't hurt you know.
I don't know what to tell you. You MUST meet a woman as a person, a friend, a confidente and then move on to wife and lover. You want to go from 0 to 100 miles with a woman and want them to be your wife off the bat. Sorry, I feel that you are setting yourself up for failure. I do know that you said before that it was disastrous in your past experience of being friends first.
But I am telling you to be realistic and be friends first and then gradually go to another level. You, unfortunately, I believe are forcing the issue of marriage with these women and you are scaring them off.
I believe that I have mentioned several times in this thread, that I am not looking "for marriage", after a mere first or second date with a girl. I wish ppl would please stop assuming that, as it is simply not true. Yes, I am looking for a long-term / serious / steady relationship, that would lead to a potential (future) marriage. But actual marriage itself, after only a few dates? Not quite yet, by a long shot.
As far as being friends with a girl before being sweethearts with her, you are assuming here that friendship and love are mutually exclusive. What's wrong with approaching a girl with romantic interests first, and being both a boyfriend *and* a friend, to her, both at the same time? At least that way, a guy runs much less if not 0% risk probability of being friend-zoned, than if he tries say friendship first and love 2nd. Much easier to be a boyfriend first and friend second (no friend zone), than a friend first and a boyfriend second (major potential friend zone risk).
Last edited by Phoenix2017; 02-19-2011 at 10:47 PM..
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