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That's because they think being nice is something you do to win someone over. It doesn't occur to them that some people are nice for its own sake.
I might have misunderstood you. Are you saying that the men think that being nice is something you do to win people over or that the women that are being nice, but fake, are the ones with this perception. Either way it is a gross miscommunication.
you can go in there saying that this is exactly what you are going to do but then when you see her you are weak, pliable, lame. nice guys really need to learn how to acquire the social skills that these girls have, because they are at a severe disadvantage most times. usually isn't until they get older; late twenties, late thirties like myself, that it even remotely begins to turn in their favor.
What you described sounds more like what you would find between a parent and child, not two equal adults.
Or, equally appropriate, between a therapist and a client.
Growing together as individuals is completely different (and in the end, much more likely to result in long term stability) than one partner trying to "build up" the deficits of another.
but if she's a normal woman who is desperate (which in my book means she has a strong desire to have someone) then i'd rather have her than a normal woman who doesn't care much for having someone.
Having a strong desire for something isn't the same as being desperate. You might have a strong desire to find a new job because the one you have now doesn't pay well. But doesn't necessarily mean you're desperate. You might get an offer and decide to pass on it because it's just not what you were looking for. On the other hand, if you were unemployed and running out of money, then you'd probably take whatever you can get. That's what I consider being desperate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom123
Desperate does not automatically equal messed up life in my world, even though I allowed myself to go down the path of listing what qualities I'd be willing to deal with. Your definition "a strong desire to have someone" was perfect.
But that's not what desperate means. See the example I gave above of the unemployed person to see what true desperation is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris72
but it does win nice guys over, that is my point. and those guys think it is something more than what it really is. they may have been raised to be polite, as a tactic to getting their way, and these are the results.
The person raised to see niceness as a tactic will assume others use it that way as well. So when a woman is nice to them, they won't just conclude that she's nice by nature. They will instead take it to mean that she's interested in him. But what if she's not? Well then he's going to feel pretty stupid for misreading her.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris72
Are you saying that the men think that being nice is something you do to win people over or that the women that are being nice, but fake, are the ones with this perception. Either way it is a gross miscommunication.
I'm saying that some men think being nice is something you do in order to win people over, particularly women. But when that niceness doesn't yield the rewards they expect, they begin to think being nice is a waste of time. I also think some women are nice just because it's in their nature to be nice. But many men will interpret that to mean she's interested in them when, in fact, she's just being nice. Not all men are guilty of this. But the nice man, the one I just described who sees niceness as a tactic, is more likely to see a woman's niceness as a sign of interest cause in their mind (the guy's), someone isn't nice unless there's an agenda. That's how they operate so that's how they assume others think as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformationPlease
Or, equally appropriate, between a therapist and a client.
Growing together as individuals is completely different (and in the end, much more likely to result in long term stability) than one partner trying to "build up" the deficits of another.
Having a strong desire for something isn't the same as being desperate. You might have a strong desire to find a new job because the one you have now doesn't pay well. But doesn't necessarily mean you're desperate. You might get an offer and decide to pass on it because it's just not what you were looking for. On the other hand, if you were unemployed and running out of money, then you'd probably take whatever you can get. That's what I consider being desperate.
But that's not what desperate means. See the example I gave above of the unemployed person to see what true desperation is.
Good morning Denny,
Neither of our definitions are wrong. I used definition #2 for I see as a desperate woman or man in the relationship sense. You used #1, and that's fine. I haven't met any reckless or dangerous desperate women who wanted to date me, though. I'm sure stalkers would fit in that category, but even my stalker wasn't dangerous.
des·per·ate
/ˈdɛspərɪt, -prɪt/ Show Spelled[des-per-it, -prit] Show IPA
–adjective 1. reckless or dangerous because of despair or urgency: a desperate killer.
2. having an urgent need, desire, etc.: desperate for attention.
3. leaving little or no hope; very serious or dangerous: a desperate illness.
Neither of our definitions are wrong. I used definition #2 for I see as a desperate woman or man in the relationship sense. You used #1, and that's fine. I haven't met any reckless or dangerous desperate women who wanted to date me, though. I'm sure stalkers would fit in that category, but even my stalker wasn't dangerous.
des·per·ate
/ˈdɛspərɪt, -prɪt/ Show Spelled[des-per-it, -prit] Show IPA
–adjective 1. reckless or dangerous because of despair or urgency: a desperate killer.
2. having an urgent need, desire, etc.: desperate for attention.
3. leaving little or no hope; very serious or dangerous: a desperate illness.
#2 is still pretty bad. Notice the word urgent. Why is someone's need for a partner urgent? Will they die if they don't find someone in time?
#2 is still pretty bad. Notice the word urgent. Why is someone's need for a partner urgent? Will they die if they don't find someone in time?
Good afternoon Denny,
I don't see urgent as a bad thing. I simply see it as them placing it as a high priority. There's nothing wrong with wanting something that's important to them as quickly as possible. I'm sure we all have our "socially acceptable" categories that would fit the "urgent" label. It doesn't make a desperate person someone everyone should avoid relationships with. I see someone who is desperate AND has a screwed up life as a correlation and I would avoid those.
I still see more benefits than drawbacks with a woman who is desperate, as long as it's not for ulterior motives the guy doesn't know about, and she really does like the guy.
I don't see urgent as a bad thing. I simply see it as them placing it as a high priority. There's nothing wrong with wanting something that's important to them as quickly as possible. I'm sure we all have our "socially acceptable" categories that would fit the "urgent" label. It doesn't make a desperate person someone everyone should avoid relationships with. I see someone who is desperate AND has a screwed up life as a correlation and I would avoid those.
I still see more benefits than drawbacks with a woman who is desperate, as long as it's not for ulterior motives the guy doesn't know about, and she really does like the guy.
Wanting something as quickly as possible is NOT the same as having an urgent need for it. If I say I have an urgent need to go to the bathroom, that's because I can't hold it any longer. But imagine I'm standing in line outside the Apple store to buy a new iPad. I may want it as soon as possible, but that doesn't mean I have an urgent need for it. To me, if someone says they're desperate, it means they just can't wait any longer and they're probably willing to lower their standards too. If I'm desperate for food, for example, I'm not going to be picky about whether it's good. I'll take whatever I can get because I'm hungry. Now apply that to a desperate person. If they're desperate to have a partner, then chances are they're willing to lower their standards. I would never want to be with someone who saw me as someone they had to lower their standards for.
Wanting something as quickly as possible is NOT the same as having an urgent need for it. If I say I have an urgent need to go to the bathroom, that's because I can't hold it any longer. But imagine I'm standing in line outside the Apple store to buy a new iPad. I may want it as soon as possible, but that doesn't mean I have an urgent need for it. To me, if someone says they're desperate, it means they just can't wait any longer and they're probably willing to lower their standards too. If I'm desperate for food, for example, I'm not going to be picky about whether it's good. I'll take whatever I can get because I'm hungry. Now apply that to a desperate person. If they're desperate to have a partner, then chances are they're willing to lower their standards. I would never want to be with someone who saw me as someone they had to lower their standards for.
Hi Denny,
If your comparison fits, then the definition of a desperate woman is one who would try to date the first guy she sees on the street. Or, at most the first guy she meets on the street who fits her standards. This is not realistic. Most people's picture of a desperate person still leaves room for some standards.
If you want to assign another term to my definition a desperate person, I'm fine by that. I'm not married to the term.
If your comparison fits, then the definition of a desperate woman is one who would try to date the first guy she sees on the street. Or, at most the first guy she meets on the street who fits her standards. This is not realistic. Most people's picture of a desperate person still leaves room for some standards.
We're obviously not in agreement over what the term desperate means. I started a new thread to discuss it and hear from others on what they think it means.
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See the example I gave above of the unemployed person to see what true desperation is.
I haven't met any reckless or dangerous desperate women who wanted to date me, though. I'm sure stalkers would fit in that category, but even my stalker wasn't dangerous. 
pər
