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I'm just tired of it. I've made more than a fair effort, not too much, but I've tried to create opportunities for myself to meet women, online dating, asking for numbers....it's all garbage. Even the relationships I had would be throw away because she "wanted a fairy tale love story with love at first sight". I feel like I'm the only one living in reality as I see relationships as starting with chemistry, but then developing special connections of trust and honesty and reliability. I know what it means to love someone, and you never love them 100% of the time, you may only love 85% of the things about them. Maybe when things are wonderful its 95%, maybe you have a rough patch and it's 65%, but you work on that other 15% with understanding and communication.
I'm exhausted Boodhabunny, I just can't sacrifice any more emotional effort toward women. Some people just aren't meant to find it and I'm starting to realize I very well may be one of those people. I'm also realizing I'm okay with being one of those guys who never find it, I just need to let go of the hope that I am because the sooner I do that, the sooner I can devote more effort to other more important things and improving myself even more than I already have.
Don't be discouraged, cdubs3201. I have no doubt that you'll find love again. I can tell from your posts that you are thoughtful, kind, intelligent, and sincere. You are NOT someone who "isn't meant to find it". You are and you will.
Perhaps you need to be more discriminating with how you spend your emotional energy and learn how to recognize emotional vampires.
When you meet the right person, things tend to fall into place almost effortlessly. Sure, things won't be perfect 100% of the time but overall, a healthy relationship will add to your life, not drag you down. Instead of feeling used and exhausted, the right person will enrich your life, make you laugh, feel alive and good about yourself. If the woman you are spending time with doesn't make your life more enjoyable, then she isn't the right woman. Let her go and move on.
I hate to see young people like yourself already so discouraged and sour. You should be enjoying this time of your life. My advice to you would be to be kind to yourself and don't be too eager to give your heart away to people who don't appreciate what you're offering.
I always saw it as women don't KNOW what they want until it's too late. Most women will hit a certain age in their 30's and they will just no longer be physically desirable or may develop a negative attitude from all the poor dating decisions they made in the past. Their looks will only deteriorate with time and the window for them to have a child will slowly close. Men can reproduce at an older age than women can.
With men, there are ones that are of high value even in their early to late 20's and they get most of the women. They don't see the benefits of settling down because they can have a new woman each week without much rejection or effort. Men with money also fall into this category.
Then there's men who are decently attractive but get ignored by most women or have been burned by them. They've realized they can find happiness in other aspects of life and choose to focus on improving themselves and being happy without the dependency on a woman. Then they hit 30 and things start to change. Women are all of a sudden very very interested in getting to know them, being introduced to them, and these women are clearly desperate to settle down and get married.
But these men don't WANT to settle down now. They're already settled with their independent life. Because they didn't get married, they saved their money, invested in a nice home, have the sports car or truck or convertible they always wanted, and they take awesome trips all over the world. They have the freedom to do whatever they want, live the life they want to live, without any commitments to tie them down. Women get all family-focused toward the very end of their window of opportunity. The men don't see why they would do this for a woman unless she has EVERYTHING he wants (looks, sex drive, stable income, good personality, good values, ability to get pregnant.) Otherwise, why would he sacrifice the ability to book a flight to vegas with some work buddies for a weekend on a whim? Why would he trade in his sunday mornings on the couch watching football for a woman who will nag him to get up and mow the lawn? Why would he give up emotional stability of being generally happy (given maybe not optimum happiness as having a wife would help achieve that), but instead risk emotional instability, pain, and heartbreak via divorce, as well as potentially lose over half of his assets and income?
That's how I see it. Maybe I'm pessimistic, and I want to be the guy that finds a nice young girl who just appreciates having a guy like me and knows much I want to try and make her happy...... But as much as I want that, it's getting real hard to believe it will ever happen and I'm looking hard to the path of the post 30 man I described above.
You generalize a little bit, but there's truth to all of this. Men I think can get jaded and resentful of women, who get to enjoy relatively high status positions in society early on in life. (As young and sexually attractive females, they're powerful entities.)
On the other hand, most young males are utterly disposable in the eyes of society, and they're forced to grit their teeth and endure their relatively low status early on in life, which is a character building process to be certain. Ain't nobody kissin' your ass or holding your hand (more likely they're kicking it.). By the time they've hit their 30's and have hopefully started making something of themselves, the rose colored glasses about love and sex have come off right about same time the high polish of female sexuality has started to show signs of tarnishing. Women get a little antsy and uneasy if they haven't yet settled down, and men are the ones to become a little more self-satisfied and flippant towards the rest of society...time being completely on their side relative to women.
It's like politics. It's a high stakes game of chicken to most people.
You generalize a little bit, but there's truth to all of this. Men I think can get jaded and resentful of women, who get to enjoy relatively high status positions in society early on in life. (As young and sexually attractive females, they're powerful entities.)
On the other hand, most young males are utterly disposable in the eyes of society, and they're forced to grit their teeth and endure their relatively low status early on in life, which is a character building process to be certain. Ain't nobody kissin' your ass or holding your hand (more likely they're kicking it.). By the time they've hit their 30's and have hopefully started making something of themselves, the rose colored glasses about love and sex have come off right about same time the high polish of female sexuality has started to show signs of tarnishing. Women get a little antsy and uneasy if they haven't yet settled down, and men are the ones to become a little more self-satisfied and flippant towards the rest of society...time being completely on their side relative to women.
It's like politics. It's a high stakes game of chicken to most people.
Very true.
It's fascinating looking back over the last 25 years or so and watching the game balance change at different ages and life stages for the sexes.
It's really interesting to see what is valued shift immensely and going back to reunions to find that the gal or guy that was out of your league is no longer someone you'd even remotely consider dating.
I'm exhausted Boodhabunny, I just can't sacrifice any more emotional effort toward women. Some people just aren't meant to find it and I'm starting to realize I very well may be one of those people. I'm also realizing I'm okay with being one of those guys who never find it, I just need to let go of the hope that I am because the sooner I do that, the sooner I can devote more effort to other more important things and improving myself even more than I already have.
I can understand why you're tired of it and frustrated by the whole process, but don't give up yet. You don't seem to me to be one of those type of guys who will never find a cool chick. You just need to chill, have fun, live your life and eventually she'll turn up. I know it's a tired old adage but when you aren't looking, that's when you find love.
I can understand why you're tired of it and frustrated by the whole process, but don't give up yet. You don't seem to me to be one of those type of guys who will never find a cool chick. You just need to chill, have fun, live your life and eventually she'll turn up. I know it's a tired old adage but when you aren't looking, that's when you find love.
I believe that even though you don't mean to... "desperation" shows...
"Love finds you"... is another saying... all the questions about.. what do you look for in a mate, what attracts you... on and on... I believe my issues were others kept telling me... you have to move on... you have to date... so since I don't hang out in bars I tried the online dating... LOL... that was a disaster... found that every one I met LIED about something... some completely lied... I am happier now just living my life, hanging with my friends, planning a relocation getting involved in family get togethers... I'm busy and if "Love finds me" great... otherwise I'm happy in my own skin. nothing about my experiences are unique to females.. it is the same with males... hate games... like honesty... very hard thing to find most of the time but I haven't given up.. just not "chasing" anything any more.
reminds me of the dog that chases his tail... if he does catch it.. then what??? LOL
Confidence means facing the good and the bad with a constructive attitude.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boodhabunny
Don't be discouraged, cdubs3201. I have no doubt that you'll find love again. I can tell from your posts that you are thoughtful, kind, intelligent, and sincere. You are NOT someone who "isn't meant to find it". You are and you will.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djuna
You just need to chill, have fun, live your life and eventually she'll turn up. I know it's a tired old adage but when you aren't looking, that's when you find love.
The above posters probably mean well, but the fact is, they don't know whether what they're saying is true or not. Unless you're God, you can't make predictions about another person's life, or say with 100% certainty that "if you do X, then you'll get Y." How do I know? Because I've seen too many instances of people whose outcomes were far different from what idealists like the above keep insisting. The tired old adages are sometimes true, and sometimes false. Repeating them as if they're incontrovertible truths may make a person feel good for a few seconds, but does nothing to advance the discussion in a practical way. It's not really that useful.
Cdubs strikes me as having a balanced, realistic understanding of the dating scene for young, decent quality males these days. What's going on out there is far from ideal. But I don't believe in this bipolar idea that either a person finds his ideal outcome, or he is miserable. Unhappiness is normal and useful. It helps draw our attention to the realities of life that we may not have fully considered, allowing us to work out for ourselves how to deal with it. It seems Cdubs has being engaging in that process with his eyes open.
As an analogy, if you play the lottery, confidence doesn't mean believing you will win. It means you stay in the game and face life constructively regardless of whether you win the jackpot, win a small amount, or lose your entire investment. Hope for the best, yes, but look at the reality of the situation and make sure you're OK in any event. Or, as Casey Kasem would say, "Keep your feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars." How's that for a tired old adage?
The following poster illustrates my point, but I would modify it to say that life isn't about being 100% happy all the time. Reality is a mixture of good and bad, pleasure and pain, happiness and unhappiness. Confidence means facing and accepting that reality with dignity, self-respect, and a positive and constructive attitude.
Quote:
Originally Posted by naturesdreams
I'm busy and if "Love finds me" great... otherwise I'm happy in my own skin.
You generalize a little bit, but there's truth to all of this. Men I think can get jaded and resentful of women, who get to enjoy relatively high status positions in society early on in life. (As young and sexually attractive females, they're powerful entities.)
On the other hand, most young males are utterly disposable in the eyes of society, and they're forced to grit their teeth and endure their relatively low status early on in life, which is a character building process to be certain. Ain't nobody kissin' your ass or holding your hand (more likely they're kicking it.). By the time they've hit their 30's and have hopefully started making something of themselves, the rose colored glasses about love and sex have come off right about same time the high polish of female sexuality has started to show signs of tarnishing. Women get a little antsy and uneasy if they haven't yet settled down, and men are the ones to become a little more self-satisfied and flippant towards the rest of society...time being completely on their side relative to women.
It's like politics. It's a high stakes game of chicken to most people.
Geez... just interesting how perspectives are so different through the eyes of others...
I was considered a "good looking" female growing up. I had to work 3 times harder to get any recognition in what ever I did... I'm blonde and since I had looks.. I was told.. "we need someone who will take this job serious and not worry about doing their nails".. really.. I always took anything I did very seriously. I used to down play my looks and wear reading glasses to interviews and success was always better.
I've raised two children... one male and one female... My son could put very little effort into his work and get recognised ... my daughter had to do extra credit and work hard all the time to get the same attention. Both had great outlooks on life and both the same IQ... my son would get the job that he went for without any prep where my daughter went through many hours of practice and still would get rejected.
I'm not in agreement with the woman's life being so carefree and easy... I guess it depends what you are trying to achieve. I've been in a career that was considered a "mans job" but technology was my passion and I studied constantly. Male counter parts would come to me for answers and advice and when lay offs came, I got laid off not because of senority not because of production, I was very happy and postive all the time or my quality of work which were all at the top of the teams but I was the only woman.. I always wondered where the co-workers went for their answers when I was gone.. hmmm..
I've accepted this because what other choice did I have.. I changed careers because I was tired of the struggle... I'm not a feminist.. really I'm not but for more work and less pay all of my life.. it is hard not to feel a bit beaten down at times...
My 21 year old daughter has discussed with me plenty of times these same observations but she is a strong woman and still is going into environmental engineering and will kick butt because she won't take the "why don't you try a woman's field".. garbage.
Some women play the "Oh I can't do it" routine which men follow like puppy dogs.. busting their tail to help them out... men enable this because they want to help that "damsel in distress" routine. I know I should play the game but you know how I feel about "games"... LOL
Don't generalize that women have it made... we don't anymore then men... some of us don't need someone to take care of us... we are capable of that on our own.. some women just play the "helpless" game better then others... and this may seem that women have it made.. ahhh... the games people play... old song but true words from an old classic...
Here's a perfect example of the frustration that I deal with:
A friend of a friend is out with us at a loud bar (I know, not the best environment, but I'm out having fun with friends, not to find my future wife). This girl I see once every summer usually flirts with me quite a bit that night. We are talking almost exclusively to each other for an hour. She goes to the bathroom and I ask her close friend what her "status" is and her friend's eyes light up and says she's single and that I should definitely make a move. When she gets back, she tells me they're going to another bar and asks me to come with. I agree and go with her and her friends. I buy them a drink at the next bar, talk a little with all of them, but mostly with her. I realize I have to get up early the next morning and it's 1am so I tell her it was nice to see her again but I have to get going, and this is what I don't understand....
Her exact words: "Well don't be a stranger, we should hang out again sometime." I say "ok, well what's your number I'll give you a call." She puts her number in my phone.
I call two days later when I had time, left a voicemail, now it's been 3 days and no call back.
If that's not baffling / confusing / frustrating then I don't know what is. These scenarios happen to me ALL THE TIME. I can't tell you how many phone numbers I've gotten of women at bars, parties, concerts, coffee shops, book stores, street festivals.....none of them answer when I call, let alone go on a date.
My recent relationships were a result of online dating in which a woman I was in love with dumped me because, again her exact words: "I want to have love at first sight, head over heels crazy about the person I'm with, and I see my other friend with a fairy-tale love story and I know I want to find that."
Before that, I was single almost 4 years, dating inconsiderate and odd women who either didn't know what they wanted or they lead me on 5 or 6 dates only to drop off the face of the Earth. Sure I've heard stories of guys being jerks to women who deny them, but I'm not one of those guys. I'd probably thank any women who actually rejected me because it's so rare to see such a small respect these days.
My gf of 2 years in college used to go party with random dudes without me because I didn't have a fake ID to get in bars and she acted as if she already had me locked in already by taking me fully for granted and didn't feel she had to spend any quality time with me. I walked.
I've tried really hard to keep the optimism that through struggle we learn and grown stronger from our negative experiences, and I don't question the effect these things have had on my life and help me become the man I am today. But again, I'm tired, I can predict what's going to happen, I don't let my knowledge affect my attitude while immersed in the situation of interacting with women and I can tell because every 1st date I've had lead to a second if I wanted it. But still, the effect of asking the girl out, getting her number and getting that excited and good feeling has long worn off. I don't even care anymore. I've become numb to that feeling. After my last break up, as tough as it was, I feel like I can never be burned again....unfortunately it doesn't feel like I can really care that deeply again either.
Here's a perfect example of the frustration that I deal with:
A friend of a friend is out with us at a loud bar (I know, not the best environment, but I'm out having fun with friends, not to find my future wife). This girl I see once every summer usually flirts with me quite a bit that night. We are talking almost exclusively to each other for an hour. She goes to the bathroom and I ask her close friend what her "status" is and her friend's eyes light up and says she's single and that I should definitely make a move. When she gets back, she tells me they're going to another bar and asks me to come with. I agree and go with her and her friends. I buy them a drink at the next bar, talk a little with all of them, but mostly with her. I realize I have to get up early the next morning and it's 1am so I tell her it was nice to see her again but I have to get going, and this is what I don't understand....
Her exact words: "Well don't be a stranger, we should hang out again sometime." I say "ok, well what's your number I'll give you a call." She puts her number in my phone.
I call two days later when I had time, left a voicemail, now it's been 3 days and no call back.
If that's not baffling / confusing / frustrating then I don't know what is. These scenarios happen to me ALL THE TIME. I can't tell you how many phone numbers I've gotten of women at bars, parties, concerts, coffee shops, book stores, street festivals.....none of them answer when I call, let alone go on a date.
My recent relationships were a result of online dating in which a woman I was in love with dumped me because, again her exact words: "I want to have love at first sight, head over heels crazy about the person I'm with, and I see my other friend with a fairy-tale love story and I know I want to find that."
Before that, I was single almost 4 years, dating inconsiderate and odd women who either didn't know what they wanted or they lead me on 5 or 6 dates only to drop off the face of the Earth. Sure I've heard stories of guys being jerks to women who deny them, but I'm not one of those guys. I'd probably thank any women who actually rejected me because it's so rare to see such a small respect these days.
My gf of 2 years in college used to go party with random dudes without me because I didn't have a fake ID to get in bars and she acted as if she already had me locked in already by taking me fully for granted and didn't feel she had to spend any quality time with me. I walked.
I've tried really hard to keep the optimism that through struggle we learn and grown stronger from our negative experiences, and I don't question the effect these things have had on my life and help me become the man I am today. But again, I'm tired, I can predict what's going to happen, I don't let my knowledge affect my attitude while immersed in the situation of interacting with women and I can tell because every 1st date I've had lead to a second if I wanted it. But still, the effect of asking the girl out, getting her number and getting that excited and good feeling has long worn off. I don't even care anymore. I've become numb to that feeling. After my last break up, as tough as it was, I feel like I can never be burned again....unfortunately it doesn't feel like I can really care that deeply again either.
What do you say in the voice mail? I know a few people who have hosed it because they left weird messages.
The above posters probably mean well, but the fact is, they don't know whether what they're saying is true or not. Unless you're God, you can't make predictions about another person's life, or say with 100% certainty that "if you do X, then you'll get Y." How do I know?
I have experienced it, as have many other people. Obviously there is no tried and true formula for finding a mate, but certain circumstances create a perfect storm.
Not looking desperate + being a pretty well rounded nice person = pretty sure to find someone.
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That's so very true...
