I appreciate the note, and that it was more thoughtful and civilized than some other people's reactions. I would like to respond to your comments. I hope you don't find my response too offensive, as it's not my goal to offend.
First, let me say that I consider this topic (analysis of my personal life) to be off-topic for this thread. I did not initiate or request it. I was just responding to Dewdrop who asked me about my life. It appears that she got all she wanted (and more) from my response, so this sub-topic seems to have fulfilled its original purpose. If it inspires people to further discuss off-topic issues, then I think it would be entirely appropriate for them to start new threads about whatever is on their minds. There is no need to continue discussing this, except that, for now, I feel it is necessary to undo a massive amount of misunderstanding about me that this has generated.
Second, I would like to make the request that people resist the urge to use my posts as an excuse to take cheap shots at me (or, for that matter, to do similar nonsense to anyone else). For example, if people want to say, or insinuate, either to me directly or "behind my back" how offensive I am, but don't point out to me directly what, specifically, was so offensive, then that serves no purpose other than to show that person's lack of courage and integrity. Or, if someone wants to twist what I said, and characterize me as being "a man whom women don't want" (which is far from the truth), then that also serves no purpose, other than, I don't know, maybe making some miserable loser feel good by insinuating that I'm one of them. It's amazing to me that some of the perpetrators of this nonsense have high numbers of posts. It would seem that they would have learned by now how to have a civilized online discussion. But there we are.
Third, if people are easily offended by views or opinions different from their own, then don't read the rest of this post. Also, the only reason I posted any of this is someone asked me about what I'd like in life, so I told them. I'm not here to force my ideas on anyone, just express my whims, because I was asked. That's all. If you're not interested in that, then don't read this.
I would also like to point out that, of the things I listed before, this one is important:
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Originally Posted by Hans63
6. I would like it if, in these discussions, people didn't keep imagining that I'm saying something that I'm not saying (see clarifications both above and below).
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I'm astounded at how many times people think I said something that I didn't say. I'll point this out in a few spots, below.
In addition, let me just clarify that nothing in my posts is intended to offend, condemn, insult, complain, or declare how miserable or unhappy I am. That is not my message at all. In fact, regardless of what people think of my online persona, I'm a happy guy. I have no complaints. Aside from that, I have observations about life that some may find interesting or humorous, and some don't. Also, there are things in life I'm interested in seeing, or changing, or improving, but it doesn't mean that I'm on some kind of quest, or stuck in some miserable quagmire trying to claw my way out. I'm happy with the way things are, and I'm open to, and interested in, various possibilities, some of which I've discussed, and will discuss, here.
I'm OK, you're OK.
And if someone has some objection to what I've said, tell me specifically what it was and why. Otherwise, just forget it. And stop telling me I said things I didn't say! Thank you.
Now, on with the show.
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Originally Posted by Hans63
1. A Hugh Hefner lifestyle. Tons of hot babes with good figures and nice, natural bazongas.
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Originally Posted by JustJulia
Okay. I am going to comment on this later. I'm not going to argue with you about what would make you happy; after all, this is your fantasy list. I am just going to point something out in a moment.
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I'm assuming the "pump and dump" post is the later post you're referring to. I saw that, but don't see it as relevant to my post. Let me clarify.
First of all, I don't know Hef personally, and I'm not saying I want to be exactly like him. It should be understood that this was a metaphor (and I was also trying to be a bit colorful/humorous). A metaphor for what? Two things: non-monogamy, and appreciation of physical beauty. That's it. I don't identify with Hef beyond that.
Now, non-monogamy covers a lot of things. It so happens that I'm not into hookups. I'm not even interested in that. As I explained in an earlier post (#351), I'm oriented toward FWBs. Now, I'm aware that, in common usage, the term FWB is often used to refer to "benefits" without much of any kind of friendship. While I'm open to that, my preference is for FWBs that are actually friends. As a result, some of my closest friends today are former FWBs (as I explained already in post #351). I think it's good.
I think it's also worth noting that there is a subset of non-monogamous lifestyle that is referred to as "responsible non-monogamy" (try googling that, and also "polyamory" and "ethical s.l.u.t."). That, combined with being sober (not into drinking or drugs at all) is exactly my focus. Let's call it my orientation. I much prefer that over drunken one-night-stands, conning women into thinking I want something serious, or "serial monogamy" (i.e., changing partners every couple months -- which is just a convenient way for people to have a variety of partners while pretending they really just want one -- a slow-motion pump-and-dump).
Now, if anyone thinks the above is controversial and/or warrants further discussion, I suggest you open a new thread topic. Possible thread titles would be:
Polyamory - valid or invalid?
Physical beauty as one factor in attraction - valid or invalid?
But I've said all I need to say about it.
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Originally Posted by Hans63
2. I would like it if women made as much effort as men do to show something positive in their personalities (for example, we see how much effort some men are putting into learning and practicing Game). Kindness would be a good choice, but I don't hear much about women trying to improve their "kindness game." There's probably not even one thread on C-D where women discuss how to do that....
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Kindness is not sought after to the extent that sexuality is.
As proof, I submit your #1 comment above. Bazongas trump most personality traits, especially in the short term. Hefner does not surround himself with nurturing Nightingales who will tend to him; they are there for the fame and the allowance.
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If women can say they like men who are handsome and confident, then it's equally valid for me to say I like women who are beautiful and kind. There is no contradiction. And if Hef had to choose between a woman who was both beautiful and kind, and one that was merely beautiful, then I'm sure he'd choose, uh, well, I guess he'd choose both. But you know what I mean.
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Game, from what I can tell, isn't so much about improving your personality to actually be a better man: it's about acting in ways that are more attractive to women.
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Forget about Game, I was just using it as an example of ways that men make an effort to improve what they demonstrate about themselves through their behavior. Game is an obvious example because we hear about men knocking themselves out trying to learn it. In fact, we see tons of YouTube videos of men sharing tips with each other. I was just pointing out that I haven't noticed women making as much of an effort to improve what they demonstrate about themselves through their behavior. Maybe it's an area of self-improvement where there's a vast, as-yet untapped market for books and videos (no, I'm not selling any). It's interesting how hard women seem to compete with each other to look sexy, and that's where the competition ends. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I just find that to be a bit lopsided.
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We do have threads here about treating others kindly, so take heart. Here are a couple of them:
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Those threads don't seem to go into the topic of how kindness plays into initial attraction, i.e., how it plays out in first impressions, on first meeting someone. That would be interesting. For now, the fact that no one seems interested in that is also interesting, in a sense. It tells us something about the current dating scene.
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Originally Posted by Hans63
3. For women in their more casual phases (hookups, FWBs, open relationships, etc.), I would like it if women would shift more toward the guys who are more sober, bookish, polite, and clean cut, and get rid of the thugs. Support your local nerd.
4. I would like it if I could find more support for being FWB-oriented. That means meeting more women who are open to that, and having friends and acquaintances who are willing to introduce me to women while knowing that I'm of that orientation.
5. I would like it if more women had what I call a classic elegance, meaning no tattoos, body piercings, or the habits of smoking, drinking, drugs, foul language, or wearing flip flops! These all make women (and men) look low-class to me. Oh, and I'd like more of them to be physically fit. (Again, nothing personal.)
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Again, I'm not going to argue with your list, because your wishes are your wishes. These three all go together in terms of what you want juxtaposed with who you are.
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They don't really go together. #3 is something about sexual relations between men and women. #4 is about having supportive social circles, finding friendship and acceptance among like-minded people, and being able to meet people through people. #5 is about the people surrounding us in our lives, in our communities, in public, etc., and how they contribute a sense of aesthetics, style, and class to the world we live in, and that's regardless of whether there's any sexual interest, or even if there's any interaction at all.
I would like to emphasize at this point that I'm NOT saying, "I demand that people conform to these expectations." I'm NOT saying, "I will not be happy until I see the world change according to my design." I'm NOT saying, "I expect that these changes will occur someday." Did any of you think I was saying that? Well, you're on drugs! (kidding)
What I AM saying is that I'm happy with the world, and my life, the way it is. And if there were any shifts over time in the directions I mentioned, that would be very cool. I think I would like that.
Oh, and by the way, I've actually already found, to some degree and at some times, ALL of the things I listed in my list. It just depends on where you are and what people you happen to meet. Contrary to popular belief, most of life's problems are logistical problems, not something where you need to "fix yourself". You can quote me on that. And then when some a-hole tells you "the common denominator of your problems is you", you can tell him to shove it.
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I just see a disconnect between wanting women who are hot, sexy and interested in casual hookups (e.g., Hefner's playmates) but not wanting to be the kind of man that that type of women go for (e.g., the sugardaddy, the player). One of the ramifications of being part of a culture that values casual sexuality from women--and, importantly, promoting such a such a culture--is that women are going to act like they do now.
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Culture is a dynamic thing, not static. It can, and will, change over time. Guess who will determine the change. It's the people who are here. That's us! We are part of that process. As for the subset of my list items that relate to cultural change, I have no idea whether things will change to any significant degree in these directions, and I certainly can't make it happen by myself. I don't even see it as required (for our culture, or for me personally), it's just a whim, that's all. But I happen to have an opinion that things will move more toward these directions in the long run, maybe not within our lifetimes, just because it would be cool. And for no other reason.
In fact, I see that some people on this thread have already been discussing #3 earlier today.
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If, in one breath, we say that women should be less uptight and more willing to have casual sex, it doesn't make sense to, in the next breath, scold women for having loose morals and acting like the kind of women who enjoy having casual sex.
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OK, here's where you're saying that I said things I didn't say. First of all, I've never scolded anyone. One exception: I'm scolding you now for claiming that I scolded anyone! "Scolding" means I'm not OK with people doing something different from what I want. But the fact is, I'm 100% OK with the way people and the world are now! Read that sentence again. Still don't believe me? Read it a third time.
Second, now hold on to your seat, this revelation will really knock your socks off. I never said that "women should be less uptight and more willing to have casual sex". Even if the scenarios in my list played out 100%, they still might be having an equal amount of casual sex as they are today. How can that be? Well, the only difference might be who they're having it with (see #3).
Don't imagine I said stuff I didn't say!
Third, I didn't "scold women for having loose morals and acting like the kind of women who enjoy having casual sex". In fact, I have no idea what you're even referring to. Maybe #5? But #5 has nothing to do with sex. It just has to do with the aesthetics in the society around us, and this is something I'm concerned about. Of course, in a society where the people have a classier aesthetic, I would probably find more women I'm attracted to, because I consider classiness to be sexy. That's just me, maybe some other guys think that the opposite is sexier. That's their problem. Those guys have no class.
To simplify: Say there are four categories of women (and some categories have more members than others, but who's counting):
(1) classier appearance, not into casual sex
(2) classier appearance, into casual sex
(3) low-class appearance, not into casual sex
(4) low-class appearance, into casual sex
My suggestion is that it would be cool if some women change their category, e.g., from (3) to (1), and from (4) to (2), and maybe other ways.
So in regard to your "in one breath" comment: There is no contradiction between whether a women is into casual sex and whether she has a classy appearance. If that were the case, one or more of the above categories would be empty. Guess what, all 4 categories have women in them now! Impossible, you say? Well, hang out with me sometime and I can prove it.
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Be a buttoned-up good girl on the outside but give it up to anybody who tingles your panties.
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Nope. Nobody has to "give it up" any more than they did before. Never said it, never will. And girls who have a neat appearance are just as horny as girls with torn jeans. Actually, I'm not sure I can prove that from personal experience. My partners tend to be the "neat appearance" types. So I don't know much about the torn jeans girls. In any case, I don't see what problem you're referring to.
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Wait, no--be more selective. But not too selective or stuck up or prissy, because nobody likes a prude. It's okay to have a lot of sex because that's cool and fun, but don't wear flip-flops because that looks trashy.
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Nope. They were already selective before. They would largely select the "bad boys", thugs, druggies, drunks, etc. So be equally selective, just change who you select. And don't do it because I said so, do it because you'll actually have a better time as a result. I give you my personal guarantee.
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Be a good and kind and loving and elegant woman, but join a harem of f-buddies because the guy only wants you for sex.
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To repeat myself, remember that I never suggested that anyone change their sexual lifestyles -- just whom they do it with (and not just for my benefit, but for theirs). Girls who hookup can still hookup, girls who do FWB can still do FWB, and girls who do monogamy can still do monogamy. This much should not be controversial.
Now, if you want to argue that women, in today's culture, who do hookups and FWB all dress in flip flops, torn jeans, and have tattoos, well have I got news for you. There are exceptions. I've met them! Although I have no idea which group is the majority. Maybe there are more women in torn jeans hooking up than women in nice dresses, I don't know. But I'm pretty sure that changing from torn jeans to a nice dress will not make the girl less horny. And I would consider her to be more sexually attractive with the nice dress. Why? Because it's more sexy!
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Wish for what you want to wish for, Hans. But you might evaluate your fantasy and whether it's attainable.
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As I mentioned above, I have already found all of the above, to some degree and at some times. So it's not a fantasy. I've had FWB relationships on and off. Sometimes I find women who show kindness. The women I was with didn't mind me being nerdy, sober, and clean-cut, and I think some of them liked it. I've had friends and acquaintances who had a positive attitude about casual/open relationships. And, the women I've been with have tended to be neatly dressed, sober, and not covered in tattoos or piercings.
All I'm saying is, the above is what I like, so more of that is better than less.
Please note that the only reason why I posted any of this was to satisfy someone's curiosity. I was asked what I would like in my life, in the area of male/female relations, so I answered. That's all. I'm not here to stand on a soapbox and dictate to people how they should think or live. If that's what anyone thinks, then they haven't been paying attention.
Have I answered everyone's questions yet? Seriously, I don't know what this obsession is people have about me, my personal life, preferences, wish lists, etc. Am I a celebrity or something? I came into this forum, not looking for anything, just interested to know what's on people's minds, and while I'm here, I may as well try to help find answers to the questions people are asking. Then, people start asking me about my personal life, so I tell them, and then they analyze it to death and criticize the hell out of me. And I really don't know where people get so many crazy ideas about what I said or didn't say. It's OK, I don't mind. Just a kind of life, I guess. It's a good thing I'm not in politics! Actually, with this kind of post, I'd never get elected anyway. By the way, how are your bazongas?
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Seriously, the same things that attract women to men make men feel emasculated, I guess, if the woman has them (and/or has had them) and they don’t.
JustJulia
