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Ditto. I've always liked guys who were interesting, but I've never in my life sought out jerks or *******s, nor do the majority of my friends. I simply will not tolerate that kind of behavior. Not that every guy turned out to be as advertised, but not every relationship works out the way you want them to, and you part ways, no harm no foul. The thing is, when forum guys start in on the horrible women who exist to crush decent men's spirits, I don't know who these women are. I've seen them on TV (and apparently every guy on the interweb seems to come across them daily,) but never in real life.
Double dittos to fleetiebelle and dewdrop who she quoted.
The idea is so foreign to me but seems to be so common to guys on this board. It's almost like they discovered some new species of women and and are the only ones who can pick them out of a crowd.
.
All of this is really just a long-winded way of saying that the crap women go through in their 20s better equips them for life in their 40s and beyond. While the boys are coasting on their testosterone and youthful virility, we're getting our trials over with. Men, on the other hand, face their trials later in life, and unless their parents did a good job in cultivating emotional awareness in them as boys, they just aren't going to be as equipped for change as women are.
And, when you get right down to it, women, as a group, took change into their own hands, from Susan B. Anthony to Gloria Steinem and beyond. Men, as a group, have only reacted to that change. Some embrace it, others resist it (even now), but they didn't drive it. Women did, and women created new roles for themselves that they didn't have before. Unless men start getting proactive and do the same, it is only going to get harder for them as time goes on.
That's my theory, at any rate.
A pretty good theory overall, esp. what I hightlighted. BUT I think due to this, the general population of men has regressed and gone into a shell of some sorts. Being a teacher, I have seen the decline of the male gender for awhile now..and there are a couple of books wanting to know what is happening to our boys (who will soon be men). I do think that we women have unknowing (or not) symbolically castrated them in a way...and now we are feeling the effects of that castration...and to be honest, I feel for many of them, for it is "dam*ed if they do and dam*ed if they don't in many areas. Take for example opening a door when he sees a woman. In the past, he would without even thinking; but today he may have to think about it as he plays the senario in his mind of the woman telling him that she can do it herself!
Why do we have so many boys/teens with little ambition or drive to do well, esp. in school? Women now outrank men in colleges; and as another more personal example, senior honors night at my daughter's high school. THose students with a 3.5 were honored onstage, and all but two were female. Those getting higher than a 1200 on the SAT, only one female and 12 boys.... how can that be??? Because they don't care, are not motivated and would rather play video games than work.
GO to a bank, and look at the tellers and now even VP's...all women for the most part; look on tv at the local news esp on weekends. No men at the anchor desks to speak of...all women. And I could go on and on... so WHERE are men working??? What are they doing or planning on doing with their lives??? I am stymied....and scared....esp. due to the economy where those men who hard working and ambitious have lost their jobs (often with their wives still employed). It is like we are setting up our whole country for failure and we are oblivious about it.
Last edited by Sagitarrius48; 08-14-2011 at 03:56 PM..
I guess I would have bought, in theory, that a woman's has less "dating" value as she gets older.
But being forced out in the dating pool at 42, and accruing 2 years of experience I would have to disagree.
There was no problem with finding men my own age, older, AND younger. I actually felt I had more value than in my 20s. And these were for the most part, white collar men, who are athletic, so they have aged well.
A lot of the men I talked to didn't want to date young girls (or so they said ), primarily because they felt they had nothing in common with them. They liked women who were financially and experience-wise, their equals. Someone who they could also TALK to. Sure, they still found them totally hot, but that wasn't enough. And they younger guys all wanted a woman who had her life together.
I suspect a lot of these opinions are coming from individuals who have not even reached the age they have so many opinions on.
I'm by no means unique, and I don't have a lot of friends complaining they can't find a decent man.
I'm not ready to settle down, I just want a steady relationship. Hell I'm not sure I ever want to get married, because the two biggest examples of it in my life haven't exactly been stellar. My mom and dad divorced after being together for a decade and a half, my mom and her boyfriend aren't considering marriage, and my dad and stepmom seem to get on each other's nerves sometimes. **** that! Maybe it becomes something, maybe not. Seems most people are just interested in hooking up, and the few that want something more are few and far in between.
As for men going through a 'bad girl' phase, I don't find that particularly admirable/something to aspire to either. Though I admit it sometimes riles me hearing my friends talk about their (forgive me for the word I'm about to use) conquests.
Not getting married isn't going to mean you have better relationships. Your parents didn't set a good example for you because they have/had bad relationship skills/habits....probably a lot of little things they may not be aware of. It happens.
If you want to do better than your parents in regard to relationships, not getting married is not really going to fix that.
Read Why Marriages Succeed or Fail by John Gottman (or really, anything by him) if you want to do better than your parents do/did.
Actually no, most guys will not get the cash to do whatever they want eventually. The same goes for most women. So, the theory of 20 something bombshells flocking to the average earner at 40 really comes down to wishful thinking. What will happen when most men reach their 40s is that they will age just like women. They will gain weight, possibly bald, begin to prune/wrinkle and the reality of their financial status will begin to sink in. Again, the same for women (aside from balding for most).
I know it's all relative. I'm 41 and I feel I've gotten more attractive over time relative to other people in my age group. The key is to not eat a lot of junk so that you don't get fat. I know that's a pretty low standard, but it's one a lot of people have trouble meeting. The other thing that helps a lot with wrinkles is: 1. not smoking (Does anyone even need to be told?). and 2. Using sunscreen. Eating fruits & veggies can also help with this, althought I can't say I've been all that good in this regard (although better than I used to be).
As far as income goes, it's the same. You need to earn an ok income consistently, but it doesn't have to be a great income. The key is to be net worth focused EG...It's not (only) how much you make, but how much you save. I've never earned an above average salary, but my net worth is close to what's average for someone 10 years older than me.
Of course, if people were more disciplined, then I wouldn't look as good in comparison. But not being overweight and having some financial security are their own rewards.
If given the choice, many men will marry a poor girl who is pretty and nice, because they view themselves as the breadwinner anyway.
I don't really think this is true anymore. Men may marry women who earn less than them, but typically poor women are not well educated. Educated men marry educated women for the most part. Educated women usually earn more than poorly educated women.
I know it's all relative. I'm 41 and I feel I've gotten more attractive over time relative to other people in my age group. The key is to not eat a lot of junk so that you don't get fat. I know that's a pretty low standard, but it's one a lot of people have trouble meeting. The other thing that helps a lot with wrinkles is: 1. not smoking (Does anyone even need to be told?). and 2. Using sunscreen. Eating fruits & veggies can also help with this, althought I can't say I've been all that good in this regard (although better than I used to be).
As far as income goes, it's the same. You need to earn an ok income consistently, but it doesn't have to be a great income. The key is to be net worth focused EG...It's not (only) how much you make, but how much you save. I've never earned an above average salary, but my net worth is close to what's average for someone 10 years older than me.
Of course, if people were more disciplined, then I wouldn't look as good in comparison. But not being overweight and having some financial security are their own rewards.
I agree on pretty much all counts here. Yes, not eating crap is probably a low standard, but it's so very important. Be it finances or our diets, it's a matter of lifestyle where small things add up. I grew up in a household of homemade food every night. My mom eats well and is very active. At 70 she has heads turning in her age group and younger. She also has never earned much in her life, but she's smart and careful. I think she topped out at 45k/yr, but she paid for my wedding, came to the aid my late brother via all his medical conditions, owns a lovely home, travels, has a retirement, and is living a fine life. But, folk like you and her are rare birds. Either way, that woman can stretch a dollar in an amazing way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticaltyger
I don't really think this is true anymore. Men may marry women who earn less than them, but typically poor women are not well educated. Educated men marry educated women for the most part. Educated women usually earn more than poorly educated women.
Again, so true ime. I tend to see likes with likes a majority of the time.
I'm starting to prep for dinner tonight! I'm making us yellowfin tuna. I have it marinating right now in virgin olive oil, parsley, oregano, and hot pepper. I'll cook it up with some onions and garlic. Ahh, garlic...it's pretty much included in everything I cook. It may lend a clue to why my mother's skin is pristine since I've acquired the love of garlic from her (we're Italian any way). On the side we'll have small blue potatoes and steamed broccolini. There's a pint of coffee haagen dazs in the freezer, so we might indulge.
If you want marriage, then you need to be with someone who wants the same. No one is saying otherwise.
I don't know what the value is, either. I mentioned before on other threads that your lifestyle will reveal itself on your face and body in your 40s. People tend to go one way or the other: They either look good and have energy or they fall apart with lifestyle-related health conditions. So maybe what happened to them is that their diet and lifestyle caught up with them.
As for emotional growth and coping, I can believe what you've said. I think men and women travel along different trajectories, at least for those who were born before the mid-80s. Even as late as the 70s, after the sexual revolution, plenty of men were raised to have a sense that the world is their oyster. It was a gimme that there would always be jobs for them, they would grow up to be breadwinners, they would still have the bulk of the power, and because they can reproduce at an older age than women, they would maintain their options in dating. Their life paths were, and are, more clearly laid out: They never had to "choose" between family and career. It was assumed they could always have both if they wanted.
Women, on the other hand, still grapple with objectification, unrealistic standards of beauty, and the way society ties a woman's--dare I say it?--value to her looks and reproductive capability. They often still feel pressure to "choose" between family and career. All of these things, they deal with when they are younger, in their 20s and 30s.
But look what is happening: The economy has stripped men in their 40s and 50s of the one thing they felt would always be theirs--work. That well-defined life path isn't so well-defined anymore. As they never had to weigh their options in any great "choice" between career and family, they don't know what to do with themselves. They have also lost their reproductive edge. Oh, their bodies can still do it, but there is nothing stopping a woman in her 40s from having a child, and if she can't, the only thing in the way of her adopting one is money. Well, plenty of women in their 40s have money now. Oops, don't need to rely on a man so much anymore.
And, because women have dealt with the trials and tribulations that go along with having their value tied to their appearance at an early age, as they mature emotionally, quite a few of them have managed to turn that lemon into lemonade by using the body-consciousness society has foisted on them to their advantage: They take better care of themselves, only now, in their self-awareness of their TRUE value as multi-faceted human beings with much to offer the world, they do it for themselves, to live longer and feel strong and energetic, not to be hot or attract a man.
All of this is really just a long-winded way of saying that the crap women go through in their 20s better equips them for life in their 40s and beyond. While the boys are coasting on their testosterone and youthful virility, we're getting our trials over with. Men, on the other hand, face their trials later in life, and unless their parents did a good job in cultivating emotional awareness in them as boys, they just aren't going to be as equipped for change as women are.
And, when you get right down to it, women, as a group, took change into their own hands, from Susan B. Anthony to Gloria Steinem and beyond. Men, as a group, have only reacted to that change. Some embrace it, others resist it (even now), but they didn't drive it. Women did, and women created new roles for themselves that they didn't have before. Unless men start getting proactive and do the same, it is only going to get harder for them as time goes on.
That's my theory, at any rate.
What a load of over-generalized garbage. I laughed especially loud at the comment about men "reacting to change" while women "took change into their own hands". Riiiight, Dr. Martin Luther King was a reactor. What a joke.
A pretty good theory overall, esp. what I hightlighted. BUT I think due to this, the general population of men has regressed and gone into a shell of some sorts. Being a teacher, I have seen the decline of the male gender for awhile now..and there are a couple of books wanting to know what is happening to our boys (who will soon be men). I do think that we women have unknowing (or not) symbolically castrated them in a way...and now we are feeling the effects of that castration...and to be honest, I feel for many of them, for it is "dam*ed if they do and dam*ed if they don't in many areas. Take for example opening a door when he sees a woman. In the past, he would without even thinking; but today he may have to think about it as he plays the senario in his mind of the woman telling him that she can do it herself!
Why do we have so many boys/teens with little ambition or drive to do well, esp. in school? Women now outrank men in colleges; and as another more personal example, senior honors night at my daughter's high school. THose students with a 3.5 were honored onstage, and all but two were female. Those getting higher than a 1200 on the SAT, only one female and 12 boys.... how can that be??? Because they don't care, are not motivated and would rather play video games than work.
GO to a bank, and look at the tellers and now even VP's...all women for the most part; look on tv at the local news esp on weekends. No men at the anchor desks to speak of...all women. And I could go on and on... so WHERE are men working??? What are they doing or planning on doing with their lives??? I am stymied....and scared....esp. due to the economy where those men who hard working and ambitious have lost their jobs (often with their wives still employed). It is like we are setting up our whole country for failure and we are oblivious about it.
More rubbish. Men only appear to be declining because more women are obtaining graduate degrees and have good careers. There are plenty of high achieving men out there.
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), primarily because they felt they had nothing in common with them. They liked women who were financially and experience-wise, their equals. Someone who they could also TALK to. Sure, they still found them totally hot, but that wasn't enough. And they younger guys all wanted a woman who had her life together.
