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@Denny I get that and try to follow that with all my relationships in life. But at the same time, if you say "I wanna go out" and she says "I wanna stay in," what the heck do you do? Storm out like a child saying "FINE, I'll go out by MYSELF!"? You say no one person should be 'in charge' but it seems that you inherently create a power/hierarchy ladder by doing that. Compromising would seem to be the better option. "Let's go out tonight and we'll stay in next Saturday" or vice versa.
@Denny I get that and try to follow that with all my relationships in life. But at the same time, if you say "I wanna go out" and she says "I wanna stay in," what the heck do you do? Storm out like a child saying "FINE, I'll go out by MYSELF!"? You say no one person should be 'in charge' but it seems that you inherently create a power/hierarchy ladder by doing that. Compromising would seem to be the better option. "Let's go out tonight and we'll stay in next Saturday" or vice versa.
If I wanna go out, but my partner wants to stay in, then I have two choices. One, I can find someone else to go out with or just go on my own. Two, I can stay in with my partner. But I would expect her to be willing to go out some other time. Two people can't be expected to agree on everything. Men and women rarely want to see the same movies, for example. And yet couples go to the movies all the time. How do they manage to agree on a movie. The answer is usually that they agree to see one movie that he likes and another that she likes. Unfortunately, there are people who expect to always get their way in a relationship and nice guys who are too accommodating will only encourage such an attitude.
Your line of thought reminds me of my fat cheating exwife
Why did she cheat on you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hindsight2020
Screw 'stop being yourself'. If people don't like you for being yourself, learn to derive happiness independent of other people. No vagina is worth your self-identity. Respect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane
I strongly disagree with the second part, however. I don't think you should EVER have to stop being yourself just for the sake of someone else. If the person doesn't like you for you, then don't waste your time on them.
I had two points, you both seemed to only noticed one; my fault. My first point which you guys understood is when I change yourself, I'm mainly saying that the lazy folks. Maybe it's time go hiking or take up tennis, something to get them off the couch. While that may make you more interesting to a girl your trying to score with, it's also a topic of conversation to your existing friends and family.
The missing point. More or less focus on the "marketing" aspect of being yourself. By no means am I saying to lie or "clown" when talking to women. If you're a homebody like hindsight, I'm sure there's something he's passionate about that and can use that passion for a topic in a conversation. The non-lazy friends I have are terrible at marketing themselves. I have been trying to help them with that. One example is a guy I know has a $2000 road bike and goes cycling three times a week. That's his passion...When he talks to girls, if hobbies are even brought up he'll just say "I'm into cycling" without any further elaboration of the topic. Yet he tells me about once a month an interesting cycling encounter from running into a coyote to getting sideswiped by a seemingly drunk driver. When talking to girls, he should be telling them about these TRUE (not clown) experiences; work the coyote and sideswiping into the conversation.
The missing point. More or less focus on the "marketing" aspect of being yourself. By no means am I saying to lie or "clown" when talking to women. If you're a homebody like hindsight, I'm sure there's something he's passionate about that and can use that passion for a topic in a conversation. The non-lazy friends I have are terrible at marketing themselves. I have been trying to help them with that. One example is a guy I know has a $2000 road bike and goes cycling three times a week. That's his passion...When he talks to girls, if hobbies are even brought up he'll just say "I'm into cycling" without any further elaboration of the topic. Yet he tells me about once a month an interesting cycling encounter from running into a coyote to getting sideswiped by a seemingly drunk driver. When talking to girls, he should be telling them about these TRUE (not clown) experiences; work the coyote and sideswiping into the conversation.
Good afternoon,
I think the "marketing yourself" aspect gets overlooked a lot from the male point of view. It may not what "should be", but in reality, women market themselves all the time, especially physically. I CAN understand why "nice guys" don't market themselves, since they've had years of female friends, aunts, moms, grandmothers, sisters, etc tell them "you're so nice" "any woman would be lucky to have you because you're a nice guy", so the guys get frustrated when this doesn't work in practice. I think it's terrible advice (yet based on love) and the "nice guys" are running with it, instead of learning to package what the female advisers see in them, in a form that's actually attractive to women. It's probably a remnant from the old days where bad boys were shunned, and a man could have many women to choose from if he was simply a "nice guy" and a good provider.
I'm sure some "nice guys" will say, "why do I have to package myself? They should like me for me!" That's true in theory, but your COMPETITION, especially the "bad boys" are constantly marketing themselves based on what is generally liked by women. They are hitting the gym, making money (or showing women the illusion of success), improving their appearance/clothes, or simply doing the numbers game like a telemarketer and approaching every woman in sight. This of course makes them even better with women since they're constantly honing their skills in saying the things many women want to hear. So you can either beat them at their own game with good marketing, or stay out of the brutal dating market and hope a good woman comes along and sees your nice qualities.
+1 for the cycling example, by the way. It's a perfect example of how an interesting guy doesn't put his best foot forward because he's nervous around a woman he finds attractive.
That being said, the "nice guys" in this thread need to figure out why "finishing first" with women is of such importance to them. I wouldn't want to waste my time with someone who doesn't value what I have to offer and puts me in the friend zone, even after they got to know the real me. If my luck were that bad with all women, I'd simply change my marketing or go my own way if changing for women is "above me". Actually, I was a "nice guy" when I was younger, and a combination of marketing (based on things I changed for my own purposes) and going my own way changed my bad luck.
Last edited by Freedom123; 05-08-2011 at 05:32 PM..
The missing point. More or less focus on the "marketing" aspect of being yourself. By no means am I saying to lie or "clown" when talking to women. If you're a homebody like hindsight, I'm sure there's something he's passionate about that and can use that passion for a topic in a conversation. The non-lazy friends I have are terrible at marketing themselves. I have been trying to help them with that. One example is a guy I know has a $2000 road bike and goes cycling three times a week. That's his passion...When he talks to girls, if hobbies are even brought up he'll just say "I'm into cycling" without any further elaboration of the topic. Yet he tells me about once a month an interesting cycling encounter from running into a coyote to getting sideswiped by a seemingly drunk driver. When talking to girls, he should be telling them about these TRUE (not clown) experiences; work the coyote and sideswiping into the conversation.
While it's important to have something you're passionate about, it's also important to recognize that others may not share that passion and may even find it boring. Guys will often fail to recognize that. They'll talk about something that they're really into like sports, but they won't realize that the woman they're talking to doesn't care. You brought up the example of cycling. A guy can say that he's into cycling. But rather than immediately launch into more detail, he could first ask if she does any cycling. If she does, great. Now you have something to build off of. If she doesn't, then you have to decide whether to continue talking about cycling, maybe broaden the topic to sports or fitness, or just change the subject altogether.
Marketing yourself should never be about misrepresenting yourself. If you're not into running, then don't say you're into running just because you met a girl who runs marathons. Instead, marketing should be about putting the best version of yourself forward. For example, maybe you're in really great shape. Well then don't dress in a way that hides that.
While it's important to have something you're passionate about, it's also important to recognize that others may not share that passion and may even find it boring. Guys will often fail to recognize that. They'll talk about something that they're really into like sports, but they won't realize that the woman they're talking to doesn't care. You brought up the example of cycling. A guy can say that he's into cycling. But rather than immediately launch into more detail, he could first ask if she does any cycling. If she does, great. Now you have something to build off of. If she doesn't, then you have to decide whether to continue talking about cycling, maybe broaden the topic to sports or fitness, or just change the subject altogether.
Marketing yourself should never be about misrepresenting yourself. If you're not into running, then don't say you're into running just because you met a girl who runs marathons. Instead, marketing should be about putting the best version of yourself forward. For example, maybe you're in really great shape. Well then don't dress in a way that hides that.
I wish somebody would have explained all this to me (I mean in general) when I was 12 years old because then I wouldn't have had to wait till I was around 13 years old to figure it out for myself.
Only in American society is being "nice" considered a curse. Ive never heard a guy say " She was too nice of a girl boo hoo ha". Nice people should keep on being nice and use their gut when dating. If being nice is who you are you should just be yourself and things will work out.
Being 'bad' doesn't necessarily mean breaking laws and beating on people. Much of the bad boy's allure is in his mystery. His various layers that girls love to peel back and discover. The problem is that most nice guys don't know anything about this & most bad boys become masters in it.
If you are handsome enough, women will care about whatever you talk about.
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