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Unread 05-17-2011, 11:38 AM
 
4,757 posts, read 2,483,124 times
Reputation: 3834
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedishViking View Post
Yes, I have no issue with this. I do not see any moral hang up with a defect baby giving place for a healthy one.
Neither do I share your view on what is pure evil.
I guess for me, the rule is pretty simple: I do not want to ever have to take a human life, or be in the position of having to decide whether someone's life is to be taken. (Even if I had to legitimately fight someone in self-defense, I would still strongly prefer to merely incapacitate them, rather than kill them.) But it all really boils down to not wanting to take a human life, for me anyway. I do not want to kill, or to have to kill -- doing so would irreparably stain my conscience, and my soul.

Quote:
Do we want to move forward or do we want to starve ourselves out through our numbers?

500 million people could populate this planet with a very high lifestandard, as we will reach 10 billion within this century the situation surrounding resources will become desperate(especially as we run out gas), and then people will have to be murdered for real rather than what you call "infanticide" through abortion.
It doesn't have to be that way (meaning, that killing is not inevitable, even if population numbers steadily increase). I kindly and respectfully disagree that a population of 10 billion is necessarily a doomsday scenario.

Quote:
The chinese "one child model" makes this possible without killing people.
Ah...but they do kill their own people, under certain circumstances (and especially with unwanted baby girls, when it was really a boy that was desired, but not the actual outcome)
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Unread 05-17-2011, 11:56 AM
 
1,543 posts, read 1,327,721 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedishViking View Post
Yes, I have no issue with this. I do not see any moral hang up with a defect baby giving place for a healthy one.
Neither do I share your view on what is pure evil.

Do we want to move forward or do we want to starve ourselves out through our numbers?

500 million people could populate this planet with a very high lifestandard, as we will reach 10 billion within this century the situation surrounding resources will become desperate(especially as we run out gas), and then people will have to be murdered for real rather than what you call "infanticide" through abortion.

The chinese "one child model" makes this possible without killing people.
How is moving forward by having less children? I don't see your reasoning. The world is not plagued by limited resources. Those countries like in Africa what plagues them the most is economic disparity. Maybe if they had the possibility to make a decent living. They would capable of producing more food for themselves, but their politics prevents them from moving forward.

I believe your sentiment is very backward and it is not something I would ever refer to "enlightened".
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Unread 05-17-2011, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,917 posts, read 10,517,340 times
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Knight2009 wrote:
Quote:
I kindly and respectfully disagree that a population of 10 billion is necessarily a doomsday scenario.
I don't know what population represents a doomsday scenario but I do know that we don't have the natural resources to sustain that great of a population if they were to live in the manner that Europeans, Americans, and other advanced nations enjoy. In fact we don't have the resources for that kind of lifestyle for the population we have right now. It's inevitable that nations would use up basic materials that we need such as metals, fuel, and all of the other countless things we use in manufacturing virtually everything we make. The only exceptions would be items like wood because we can plant new trees but we can't create new copper, oil, or materials such as those so the result would be nations having wars over our depleting resources.
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Unread 05-17-2011, 12:23 PM
 
5,197 posts, read 2,587,999 times
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Very interesting article, thanks.
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Unread 05-17-2011, 12:28 PM
 
3,573 posts, read 2,854,626 times
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Don't they kill girl babies? Or get rid of them by adoption?
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Unread 05-17-2011, 12:39 PM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
13,510 posts, read 3,496,200 times
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The assumption is that all males and/or all females are heterosexual and therefore "available" to the opposite gender.
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Unread 05-17-2011, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
4,467 posts, read 4,595,170 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Park View Post
The assumption is that all males and/or all females are heterosexual and therefore "available" to the opposite gender.
Theoretically I'd imagine that an equal number of males and females are homosexual, so they'd cancel each other out, and you'd still have the same female deficit.
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Unread 05-17-2011, 01:36 PM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
13,510 posts, read 3,496,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliTerp07 View Post
Theoretically I'd imagine that an equal number of males and females are homosexual, so they'd cancel each other out, and you'd still have the same female deficit.
According to research conducted by Dr. Alfred Kinsey and the University of Indiana Institute for Sex Research, homosexuality does tend to run slightly higher in males than in females ... more than 60 years after these findings were published, there has been no credible dispute with this.
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Unread 05-17-2011, 03:15 PM
 
1,687 posts, read 1,070,679 times
Reputation: 1479
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-boy-80 View Post
How is moving forward by having less children? I don't see your reasoning. The world is not plagued by limited resources. Those countries like in Africa what plagues them the most is economic disparity. Maybe if they had the possibility to make a decent living. They would capable of producing more food for themselves, but their politics prevents them from moving forward.

I believe your sentiment is very backward and it is not something I would ever refer to "enlightened".
Just one example is that the worlds forrests would be gone by now if the rest of the world would have started using them the same time as western europe. And thats during a time of lower populations.
it's a known fact that many places cut down their forrests ways faster than a new one can be grown, many times at the cost of minerals from the ground, making it hard for nature to regrow previous vegetation. This is of course not a problem that occurs everywhere, but some of the places where wood is in very high demand(leading to supply getting pushed hard) are at these sites, for example south American countries like Brazil.

As the population grows and more and more countries catch up economically(china is just up your heals, india is 20 years behind but a good way up and so on) there will be a large increase in demand, and meanwhile raw materials that we take for granted today like oil and iron (among tons of others) will steadily decrease in supply. This in turn triggers prices to shoot for the sky, meaning poverty is re-arranged geographically. (Some of your factory workers and other lower-class employees are feeling the symptoms of a similar effect today).

It is more than likely that more countries around the world will get themselves in good order to start a catch-up phase.

The catch up phase
Spoiler
itself is an effect that is seen in countries that are underdeveloped, who then get into and industrial age (often through political revolution or similar) with lower wages than surrounding countries, meaning they can take care of most works of labor where competence is easily gained which gives an economic push through export, which in turn gives room and resources for advancing to technology that is already invented in the surrounding developed countries, which in turn makes peoples life-standard catch up with the richer countries life-styles in record speed compared to how long it took for whoever did these advancements first.


About "infanticide" you can't logically count anything as alive until it's born. I draw the line a birth; it is the logic place for lifes beginning. (otherwise we already mass-murder at any male ejaculation or female menstruation and then we're screwed on that point anyway).

And regarding gay relationships; they're hardly in high enough numbers to effect this, especially as many closet gays do the whole straight marriage'n'kids thing because they're pressured to in different ways.
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