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I love the swinger lifestyle and in fact I was at a great party last night with people of all shapes ages and sizes. Some were hot to me and some were not hot. My husband and I love it and that is that
Good for you. That is so interesting. Fascinating really! In related news, last night I had a great dinner, duck confit. It's a favorite of mine. I love duck and that is that. Gosh, it feels so good to get my personal preference for eating duck off my chest. I deserve a parade.
XXXTo whomever sent me the comment of how I'm not worthy of my wife because I messed around behind her back.XXX
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Let me clarify my post.
When I spent the summer at Trapeze I WAS NOT MARRIED. In fact, I hadn't even met my wife yet. I was a single guy in my 20s.
The reason my wife still doesn't know I went there is because I don't need her thinking I was a bigger pig than she already knows.
She knows I slept with a lot of women, but not that it was a lot of 45+ year old women that wanted to get drunk and high with a 20 year old me.
You couldn't pay me to do anything like that ever again. I would never risk my marriage for a piece of azz.
It has come to my attention that I did not sign my rep comment to you - believe me it was an oversight as I'm happy to stand by my opinions and comments. I do apologize for the way it must have felt to receive an anonymous criticisim.
I am glad you clarified your comments. The post of yours I responded to on rep made it sound as though you had cheated on your wife and were finding it very funny to have this secret you are keeping from her. It is commendable that you actually respect her and your marriage more than your original comment indicated
It has come to my attention that I did not sign my rep comment to you - believe me it was an oversight as I'm happy to stand by my opinions and comments. I do apologize for the way it must have felt to receive an anonymous criticisim.
I am glad you clarified your comments. The post of yours I responded to on rep made it sound as though you had cheated on your wife and were finding it very funny to have this secret you are keeping from her. It is commendable that you actually respect her and your marriage more than your original comment indicated
Interesting response, I'm still digesting it. I have a few questions, I'll try not to be overly verbose.
I agree with you that we have the ability, but I question why it's important or necessary. Recreational sex is fun, and if it can be done safely without causing drama, why not?
(My own opinion is that society has taught for so long that sex is special, that it is reserved for one person only under the protection of marriage, and most importantly that 'good girls don't' that after a time, people start to believe that. It can be unlearned, but not until you (the generic you) understand that it really IS just sex.)
This does happen from time to time, fortunately it's rare and people who have been coerced may as well have a flashing neon sign to that effect. I can count on one hand the number of couples like that we've run into and have fingers left over. Never saw any of them a second time.
Why do you think that?
I wouldn't necessarily jump to that conclusion, our 'at home' sex life is not only just fine, it's great, and we're both certainly happy with it. We certainly could go vanilla, but why?
It's funny you say that because to me, in many ways I think if anything society has brainwashed us into elevating sex to something far more "important" socially ( and I would argue NOT morally) than it is in terms of over sexualisation.
If anything being faithful and sexually exclusive seems to be mocked and derided, popular culture , the advertising world, music and film industry all seem to be telling us to behave like baboons on heat.... We are constantly assaulted with barrages of sexual images from an early age, it is relentless.
A Guy who does not have a taste for Porn or strippers will be considered a lesser man by his peers, a woman who does not spend half of her life trying to please her man in the bedroom or trying to attract potential mates a lesser woman it seems in the eyes of the public. Sex it seems is ALL we are supposed to be thinking about and if you happen to not fall in line with this you become the ostracised one, the one who is boring and a little weird possibly. We have gone from a sexually repressed age ( which I grant you was certainly not a good thing IMO) to a sexually incontinent one. Both extremes to me equally repellent.
Sex to me is ALWAYS recreational. Is there any other kind ? I have certainy never thought of sex as a chore or something to be getting over and done with. Whether a "quickie" or an "all nighter" , sex to me is about FUN and pleasure. But we with someone I love.
I realise some people view it as a tool for procreation but I have never seen it like that. In fact it is the only part of sex which I do not like. The teeny, tiny remote possibility that I could get pregnant. Procreation is about the least appealing part of sex to me ! By far.
Sex is fabulous, it offers toe curling, physical ecstasy but to me that without any form of emotional intimacy is simply greatly diminished. I certainly do not feel I am missing out on anything, I do not feel deprived or limited because I have chosen to be with one man and one man only. If I wanted to sleep around I just would. I have never felt deprived .
How can you say your sex life with your wife is satisfying if you are both lacking something ? It sounds to me odd that she gives you everything you need and yet you still feel the need for something else. That to me is the essence of dissatisfaction , surely, isn't it ? If you need to look somewhere else then surely it shows that both of you are at least sexually inadequate in terms of what you provide the other ? That emotionally, or psychologically you might be oerfect but sexually you need something else. In fact by the sound of it a lot of it. It is good that you found someone with similar needs so you can indulge without feeling betrayed.
The "Vanilla" world to me is not quite as boring and lacklustre as you make it sound... There are plenty of shades , flavours and textures even within one world...
As mentioned before though I do agree that swinging is a far more honest lifestyle than cheating. Both parties being consenting making it an open relationship and thus not deceitful. And that has to be better than sneaking behind someone's back.
At the end of the day we shall have to agree to disagree as sex to me is NEVER just sex. As mentioned there is no way you are ever going to engage my sexual organs as a potential sexual partner if I do not have a rapport with you or a deeper connection of sorts. My brain is the fist organ which needs to be stimulated, way begore the clitoris !
I suppose some of us are "wired" differently and as long as we find partners who share our own sense of values then there is no issue.
Hubby and I have always been open about sexual issues ( as we were about other important issues like wanting or not wanting children) since we first became an "item". I think you have to be if you are ever going to have a chance to work as a team.
We discussed our sexual "requirements" and values as well as our social and "moral" ones from a really early stage. I believe openess is crucial.
I discussed this thread with him this week-end and as expected his response was pretty much the same as mine. He indicated that he would be seriously freaked out if I ever brought up the idea of swinging as well as really disappointed and he also added he thought the concept to be utterly bizarre to him.
Like me though he thinks people should do as they please as long as nobody does get hurt.
I am an Atheist and always have been so there is no religious connotation to my beliefs about sex. I was brought up by an Atheist and very open Dad who was never afraid of talking about sex to me for example. My Father always taught me to think for myself and to be true to myself and I have always attempted in life to follow that precept.
Being true to myself means not giving in to pressures to be something I am not. I shall never be tutti-frutti and to me sex will always remain something deeper and more profound than purely sexual stimulation.
I feel as long as sex remains profoundly earth moving, toe curling pleasurable that I am not missing out on anything. Had I been with a less adequate man to my own particular needs then maybe my story would have been different.
I met someone I love deeply, someone I desire and crave physically still 22 years after we met and he is not only enough but far more than that. So much so that it frightens me sometimes how perfectly suited we seem to be to each other. I think I would never find so perfect for me and the idea of losing him is not only unbearable but deeply scary because I feel a life of loneliness would probably me my lot !
I do not feel sexually repressed, and do not feel I am missing out by my "vanilla" lifestyle. I know some people will not believe me but I have never looked at another man sexually since we were together. 22 years.
I have seen men I have found physically attractive but to me they are like beautiful sculptures, I can appreciate them without wanting to hump them !
In fact I appreciate beauty in both sexes. Hubby and I always openly discuss beautiful women and men without either of us feeling slighted or jealous.
I have no issues with being part animal but I cannot help being a sentient one with more emotional connections than some of our animal friends and a more complex relationship with my body and my "soul" so to speak.
To me part of my humanity is my ability to connect with someoe on a deeper level , and exclusive sex allows me to make those connections more profound far reaching, to ME that is. Human sexuality is a deeply complex system and one which in many ways is unique to each individual. I find the concept of toe sucking or fetishes for example utterly bizarre but each to their own as they say. If someone gets sexually aroused by collecting rubber stamps of bunnies good for them !
We are all different and I respect that. I do not understand it and to me it will always be "morally" dubious at best but heck I am not a God, I certainly have no right to tell people what to do in the privacy of their own bedroom/sex club !
What a boring world it would be if we all had the same views and I certainly do not have the monopoly on "righteousness", simply the right to my own values and views . As do you to your own set of said "values".
In general, swingers are a hideous group of people. I went with a friend to a swinger's nightclub here in NYC a couple of years, and the thought of any of those people touching me was absolutely revolting. If I'm going to have casual sex, it has to be with someone hot, not with some dude who looks like Dennis Franz. To be fair, I'd guess that attractive swingers don't need to go to clubs and organized events in order to get laid - they can make it happen on their own. So a key party? No way!
Hey, Dennis Franz can get some very attractive woman and I hear he is not diminutive in size.
It's funny you say that because to me, in many ways I think if anything society has brainwashed us into elevating sex to something far more "important" socially ( and I would argue NOT morally) than it is in terms of over sexualisation.
Is life imitating art? Or is it the other way around? Our society is undoubtedly more sexual than it used to be, and I predict that trend will continue for some time. Our art will naturally reflect that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooseketeer
I do not feel deprived or limited because I have chosen to be with one man and one man only. If I wanted to sleep around I just would. I have never felt deprived .
And that is most assuredly your right. And as long as it's a fully informed choice, and it sure sounds like it is, then go for it. But you'll understand my offense when you label our way as 'immoral'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooseketeer
How can you say your sex life with your wife is satisfying if you are both lacking something ? It sounds to me odd that she gives you everything you need and yet you still feel the need for something else.
If I have to explain it, you probably won't get it. Just as I literally don't understand why anyone would want to live a vanilla life, you literally don't understand why anyone wouldn't. Different strokes, I guess.
I will say this, there is one thing I can never provide my wife sexually, as she is bisexual and I can't be a woman. I am not offended by the idea that I cannot provide her everything she wants, I am but one man, and I have limitations.
I am tempted to draw an analogy to a favorite food... No matter how much you love your favorite, you nonetheless have variety in your meals. I'm not sure that will help you understand though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooseketeer
As mentioned there is no way you are ever going to engage my sexual organs as a potential sexual partner if I do not have a rapport with you or a deeper connection of sorts. My brain is the fist organ which needs to be stimulated, way begore the clitoris !
That doesn't make you much different than most swingers, for we feel the same. We just don't limit ourselves to a single partner. Don't get me wrong, it can get a bit primal from time to time, I had sex with a lovely young lady a month or so ago who's name I did not forget, but did not then and still do not know. However, such encounters tend to be the exception, not the rule. Most, though certainly not all, people with whom we share sexual relationships become a part of our lives outside of the bedroom as well, and some of them have become our best friends on the face of the planet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooseketeer
He indicated that he would be seriously freaked out if I ever brought up the idea of swinging as well as really disappointed and he also added he thought the concept to be utterly bizarre to him.
It seems you guys have good communications skills, but the above troubles me a bit. Why? Because if he would 'freak out' to merely expressing an idea, or wanting to have a conversation, you will be highly unlikely to do so, even if you want to. I'm not suggesting you should or will someday want to swing, but I know swingers who once could have written your posts, so it's not impossible. If it ever did, you know are less likely to be willing to discuss it.
One thing I love about our relationship is there is literally nothing we can't discuss, and nothing that could evoke a 'freak out'.*
* Nothing realistic, anyway. 'Honey, I decided to become a pedophile' is likely to elicit something that might be described as a 'freakout', but I'm not concerned about that ever coming up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooseketeer
I know some people will not believe me but I have never looked at another man sexually since we were together. 22 years.
No, I don't believe you. Such a thing runs contrary to human nature. You may deny it, you may repress it, and you may wish it didn't exist, but sexual attraction did not cease to exist simply because you found 'The One'. (BTW, in the event that sounded a little snarky, please rest assured it wasn't meant that way, it sounds like you have a great relationship and I'm very happy for you.)
In my opinion, we have only been "sexually repressed" since the fall of the Roman Empire. We may only be "catching up" on what we should have had, had that empire not fallen.
I tend to agree that I don't believe I can be everything to a spouse. So, I didn't require it of her either.
I think I would still be married if my ex-wife had convinced her girl friends to simply use me for sex, so she could have a better relationship with me, without me needing to find it with some other girls she may have been able to trust less.
Is life imitating art? Or is it the other way around? Our society is undoubtedly more sexual than it used to be, and I predict that trend will continue for some time. Our art will naturally reflect that.
And that is most assuredly your right. And as long as it's a fully informed choice, and it sure sounds like it is, then go for it. But you'll understand my offense when you label our way as 'immoral'.
If I have to explain it, you probably won't get it. Just as I literally don't understand why anyone would want to live a vanilla life, you literally don't understand why anyone wouldn't. Different strokes, I guess.
I will say this, there is one thing I can never provide my wife sexually, as she is bisexual and I can't be a woman. I am not offended by the idea that I cannot provide her everything she wants, I am but one man, and I have limitations.
I am tempted to draw an analogy to a favorite food... No matter how much you love your favorite, you nonetheless have variety in your meals. I'm not sure that will help you understand though.
That doesn't make you much different than most swingers, for we feel the same. We just don't limit ourselves to a single partner. Don't get me wrong, it can get a bit primal from time to time, I had sex with a lovely young lady a month or so ago who's name I did not forget, but did not then and still do not know. However, such encounters tend to be the exception, not the rule. Most, though certainly not all, people with whom we share sexual relationships become a part of our lives outside of the bedroom as well, and some of them have become our best friends on the face of the planet.
It seems you guys have good communications skills, but the above troubles me a bit. Why? Because if he would 'freak out' to merely expressing an idea, or wanting to have a conversation, you will be highly unlikely to do so, even if you want to. I'm not suggesting you should or will someday want to swing, but I know swingers who once could have written your posts, so it's not impossible. If it ever did, you know are less likely to be willing to discuss it.
One thing I love about our relationship is there is literally nothing we can't discuss, and nothing that could evoke a 'freak out'.*
* Nothing realistic, anyway. 'Honey, I decided to become a pedophile' is likely to elicit something that might be described as a 'freakout', but I'm not concerned about that ever coming up.
No, I don't believe you. Such a thing runs contrary to human nature. You may deny it, you may repress it, and you may wish it didn't exist, but sexual attraction did not cease to exist simply because you found 'The One'. (BTW, in the event that sounded a little snarky, please rest assured it wasn't meant that way, it sounds like you have a great relationship and I'm very happy for you.)
I sure hope our friend Mooseketeer doesn't waste a second on trying to respond to such drivel
People like you that really have no clue what true love and committment are always think you can tell those of us who do know what they are that we are "in denial" or "living a vanilla life"
The reality is YOU, and people like you, are the ones in denial.
In addition to contempt for your perversion of one of God's greatest gifts to us (sex), I pity you and sincerely hope you never have children.
In addition to contempt for your perversion of one of God's greatest gifts to us (sex), I pity you and sincerely hope you never have children.
Actually, unlike you, Moose has been kind and gracious despite the fact that she and I share different outlooks on life. As for your 'god', fortunately that that you believe in doesn't exist, as you appear to have little insight into the true nature of spirituality. Good thing, too, for the god that you believe in is cruel and inhumane, and not someone I'd care to be associated with.
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There are plenty of shades , flavours and textures even within one world... 
