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Again, thank you for your thoughtful response, Dewdrop. It's extremely difficult to discuss this topic without one party feeling judged by the other party. I really appreciate your willingness to explain your point of view to me in such a patient, kind way. And that goes for Djuna too.
I think you hit the nail on the head with this:
> I think of the terms "committed relationship" and "marriage" as two different entities. One may lead to the other but they are not equal to each other. I think perhaps they are one and the same to you - which may be one of the reasons why we don't see eye to eye.
Yep, you are right. I do see them as one and the same. I don't believe that mutually exclusive sexual relationship = genuine commitment. I view non-marital relationships as "casual" compared to marriage partners. You have given me some good food for thought.
Again, thank you for your thoughtful response, Dewdrop. It's extremely difficult to discuss this topic without one party feeling judged by the other party. I really appreciate your willingness to explain your point of view to me in such a patient, gentle way. And that goes for Djuna too.
I think you hit the nail on the head with this:
> I think of the terms "committed relationship" and "marriage" as two different entities. One may lead to the other but they are not equal to each other. I think perhaps they are one and the same to you - which may be one of the reasons why we don't see eye to eye.
Yep, you are right. I do see them as one and the same. I don't think mutually exclusive sexual relationship = genuine commitment. You have given me some good food for thought.
Well, I still find the idea of being test driven repulsive. Ewww.
The term isn't particularly classy I admit. And I really don't think people are consciously thinking that.
I would never think like that myself. I have always just drifted into a relationship with the idea it was going to last forever. I lived with my first husband for 10 years. We had 2 daughters together, we owned a house, we were very committed as a couple without being married. We started off just having sex though and it progressed gradually.
My second husband and I met online and developed a relationship long before we had sex. Again it was very fluid and natural.
I think what you are describing as a committed relationship might be a committed relationship to you - but it sounds more like a marriage than a relationship. I think most people define a committed relationship as an exclusive or monogamous relationship. I consider the relationships before I got married as committed - we loved each other, we were there for each other, we got through some tough times together, but in the end we were just wrong for each other. This didn't have anything to do with viewing the relationship as "disposable" but merely recognizing that we weren't the right people for each other. However, our ultimate incompatibility did not mean that we were not in a committed relationship while it lasted. It just means that we figured all this out before we got married - so we avoided a divorce. This is just my point of view. I think of the terms "committed relationship" and "marriage" as two different entities. One may lead to the other but they are not equal to each other. I think perhaps they are one and the same to you - which may be one of the reasons why we don't see eye to eye.
For the record - I still think you are misunderstanding the term test drive and you are using it in a very judgemental, negative way. My living with my husband wasn't a "test" and us having premarital sex wasn't one of us using the other sexually. To us - having sex, living together, then getting married was just the natural course of events. It made sense to us. We pretty much knew we wanted to spend the rest of our lives together within a few months of dating - but we were young and wanted to take our time. We did things on our own timeline in a way that made sense to us. Most of my friends all slept with and lived with their spouses before they got married. I don't think they would say these were "tests" - just simply the next steps in their relationships.
I think what people mean when they say you wouldn't by a car with out a test drive and relating that to premarital sex - is that they want to get to know a person inside and out before pledging forever to someone. To you this may not make sense but to many of us it does. And that's okay. To each their own.
Dewdrop93; the way you explain make sense to me too. I also appreciate how you explain things, yet I still believe that you can get to know a person inside and out without having sex. I also see committed relationships and marriage as one which is probably why I am strongly against sex before marriage. The way I understood the car analogy doesn't make sense to me as it would make sense to you and many others. I guess in some ways I am not emotionally ready for premarital sex which it is kind embarrassing because some teens are. But really, thanks for explaining.
Dewdrop93; the way you explain make sense to me too. I also appreciate how you explain things, yet I still believe that you can get to know a person inside and out without having sex. I also see committed relationships and marriage as one which is probably why I am strongly against sex before marriage. The way I understood the car analogy doesn't make sense to me as it would make sense to you and many others. I guess in some ways I am not emotionally ready for premarital sex which it is kind embarrassing because some teens are. But really, thanks for explaining.
There is no reason to be embarassed. I had sex as a senior in highschool but I had been with my boyfriend for almost a year and we had known each other since we were 12. I'm still glad I lost my virginity to him and we remain very close friends. I have no regrets. I have many friends that lost their virginity in highschool because they felt pressured and they regret it completely. I think that it is such a personal decision and you shouldn't do it until you are ready. There is no magic age or magic legnth of time to be with someone that signifies that you are ready. It varies from person to person, from relationship to relationship.
Also - some people may feel like they don't need to have sex with someone to know them inside and out. I do. But that's just me. Also - everyone has a different idea of what their ideal relationship is like. I tell my husband everything - and I mean everything. There are people that are more private - even in their marriages. There are people that don't like to burp in front of their spouse. Everyone is so different and every relationship is so different - the key is just to find the right person for you. If you want to wait until marriage - the right person for you will be okay with that.
Well, as I mentioned before I don't have a militant view on this. I personally had sex before marriage and lots of it. If having sex before marriage is important to you, then it's important you. I don't have a problem with any of it. I do have a problem when people point fingers and say that they are wrong to choose one way or the other. Waiting until marriage to have sex is looked down upon these days and quite unfairly.
Looked down upon? Is that why people are trying to make it the only thing taught in sex ed? Outside of frat boys, the only people pointing fingers are the puritans who think there is something morally wrong with the choice to have sex without marriage. When was the last time someone said it was wrong not to have sex? I can't recall hearing that for years, IRL or the media. Heck, if someone wants to be celibate for life I do not view that any less as someone who is sexually active. Now, ask someone who pontificates abstinence as the only way for anyone if they think being sexually active is wrong or not.
Looked down upon? Is that why people are trying to make it the only thing taught in sex ed? Outside of frat boys, the only people pointing fingers are the puritans who think there is something morally wrong with the choice to have sex without marriage. When was the last time someone said it was wrong not to have sex? I can't recall hearing that for years, IRL or the media. Heck, if someone wants to be celibate for life I do not view that any less as someone who is sexually active. Now, ask someone who pontificates abstinence as the only way for anyone if they think being sexually active is wrong or not.
When was the last time? Well, see below. This is just from this thread. I don't think people say that it's "wrong" to wait until marriage, perhaps "wrong" is the wrong word, but I certainly heard a lot of "useless", "stupid", "childish", "prudish" and etc...
Quote:
Virginity and purity is for children. Sexual bonding is for adults.
Last edited by max's mama; 07-29-2011 at 05:29 PM..
There is no reason to be embarassed. I had sex as a senior in highschool but I had been with my boyfriend for almost a year and we had known each other since we were 12. I'm still glad I lost my virginity to him and we remain very close friends. I have no regrets. I have many friends that lost their virginity in highschool because they felt pressured and they regret it completely. I think that it is such a personal decision and you shouldn't do it until you are ready. There is no magic age or magic legnth of time to be with someone that signifies that you are ready. It varies from person to person, from relationship to relationship.
Also - some people may feel like they don't need to have sex with someone to know them inside and out. I do. But that's just me. Also - everyone has a different idea of what their ideal relationship is like. I tell my husband everything - and I mean everything. There are people that are more private - even in their marriages. There are people that don't like to burp in front of their spouse. Everyone is so different and every relationship is so different - the key is just to find the right person for you. If you want to wait until marriage - the right person for you will be okay with that.
Thank you again. They are some good food for thought.
Responding to why sex before marriage considered a bad thing with sensible answer
Bad sense because religion forbids it.
Common sense forbids it as sex comes with risk of unwanted pregnancy. Economical sense - wanted pregnancy that comes with overwhelming responsiblities and costs.
Health senses forbids it if sex is done with multi strange bed bedfellow partners as it increase risk from herpes to HIV.
Real sense - what is wrong of having sex between two consenting adults biologically programmed to mate who are bonding to a relationship?
Reality sense - sex is part of emotional and performance tools where we assess relationships. So, is sex bad? That is up to what individuals and not up to those who think it is bad. After, they are not participating in the sex act that is between the couple bonding sexsions.
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