Who has it better? The Wife or the Mistress? (kid, reasons, dysfunction)

[MonaLisaVito]

Originally Posted by ChessieMom

Owe you a rep!

It's like watching a dog chase his tail for hours on end...and he still thinks it's another dog's tail

[Dewdroplet76]

[quote=onihC;21754181]

Relax. It is your privilege for things to go that way in your culture so no need to apologize.

Should I apologize because girls ask me out just like I ask them out too? See what I mean?

It is not my "privilege" to be asked out any more than it is my "privilege" to get hit on, whistled at, gawked at, etc. Many men have asked me out. I don't see it as a privilege any more than I see women asking you out as a privilege.

And when I say women ask me out you are also quick to ask me if I come out with a spread sheet, calculator, etc. and wonder how it works out. Of course people will have questions of something they are not used to or make fun of it.

This isn't about women asking you out - this is about you always talking about how all your relationships are always equal from date one. And it seems to mostly come down to money for you. You paid for the movie, she paid for dinner etc. You keep track of these things like you are a date accountant.

Guy asks a girl out. He makes reservations to a nice restaurant. Picks her up and takes her there. They have dinner. After that he takes her for some drinks, an event, etc. And drops her back home. She was the spectator pretty much. Just let the guy take her out, feed her, entertain her, etc. Hey, that’s fine. I’ve done it while I am in the USA and it’s all good.

So… during dinner, she just sits there. Doesn't contribute to the conversation at all. She's wearing sweats and talking on her cell phone to someone else the entire time. He picks her up and drops her off - she sits in the back seat. He sings, dances, does back handsprings, and she watches and eats popcorn. If this was what you were describing - I could see how she would be considered a spectator. To MOST people, dating is a way to get to know someone. Dating is used to see if you are compatible with someone. You go out - get to know each other, see if maybe you are a good fit. If not - you move on. You seem to think dating is about who pays. Maybe that is why you have never been in love. You have to be a least open to getting to know someone on a date instead of just watching if she reaches for the check. Dating is not a spectator sport. Have you actually dated real women or just escorts? I'm asking honestly because I don't see how someone who has any experience dating would describe dates the way that you do. If a woman asked you out, paid for your dinner, and entertained you - would you consider yourself a spectator? Surely, many Asian women have done this for you - were you a spectator? Did you consider yourself a male prostitute? Or is it just when it's the other way around…

Then you can agree with me that it is the way it goes in the USA. Women prefer it, men do it, that’s how it goes. I’ve said it all along. Finally you agree with me. I repeat, this is not good/bad for me, it’s just different. And when I visit the USA I date American style with no problem.

If you ignore what I actually said then I can understand why you would think I would agree with you. What I said was that perhaps AMERICAN MEN PREFER TO PURSUE. You changed it into American women preferring men to pursue so the men do it. BIG DIFFERENCE. I don't agree with you. If American men did not prefer to pursue, I would have asked out many more American men. Let me ask you this - how many American women have you actually dated? And honestly, just because American women haven't asked you out - it doesn't mean they don't ask any men out. It means that they just don't ask YOU out. There again - is a big difference.

Well, then now you do understand the “free sex” concept then. Not many women seem to like it or admit that they do like free sex, that is, enjoying one night stands, sex hook ups, sex buddies, etc. That’s what I meant when we were talking about mistress, free sex, etc. a few pages ago.

I find the fact that you even think of sex in terms of "free" or "not free" kind of disgusting. Am I alone in this?

[MonaLisaVito]

Originally Posted by Dewdrop93

Am I alone in this?

No

[Katnan]

Originally Posted by MonaLisaVito

No

Dewdrop, you're far from alone. They just won't let us rep you as much as we want to.

[Dewdroplet76]

Originally Posted by MonaLisaVito

No

Originally Posted by Liberty2011

Dewdrop, you're far from alone. They just won't let us rep you as much as we want to.

Good to know! If I ever heard my husband talk about "free" sex - I'd know that I'd married the wrong person. Only someone with absolutely no respect for women would ever think in those terms.

[Cindy_Jole]

Originally Posted by Dewdrop93

Good to know! If I ever heard my husband talk about "free" sex - I'd know that I'd married the wrong person. Only someone with absolutely no respect for women would ever think in those terms.

You are so right

[onihC]

Almost half a page of women giving each other high-fives. Reminds me of high school. The whole “yeei for girl power”.

Originally Posted by Dewdrop93

If I ever heard my husband talk about "free" sex - I'd know that I'd married the wrong person. Only someone with absolutely no respect for women would ever think in those terms.

That term exists, live with it. Men have to work it to get to that point unless you believe in “free sex” (sex buddies, sex hook ups, one night stands, etc.).

It is not my "privilege" to be asked out any more than it is my "privilege" to get hit on, whistled at, gawked at, etc. Many men have asked me out.

Privilege in the sense that you get asked out, taken out to eat, drinks, entertainment, etc. without you really putting any effort other than just looking nice, like him, and enjoy what he planned for you. I enjoy those things too when a woman asks me out. Difference is that I don’t care if she asked me out for me to just let her take care of me and that’s it. I’ll do my part too, not just show up and enjoy the ride. It’s OUR date, not just mine regardless of who asked who or if it’s the very first date or months of dating.

This isn't about women asking you out - this is about you always talking about how all your relationships are always equal from date one. And it seems to mostly come down to money for you. You paid for the movie, she paid for dinner etc. You keep track of these things like you are a date accountant

Go back to a page or two before this one so I don’t have to explain it again. Dates can cost money. Some cost more than others and, sure, you’ll have some that won’t cost at all. Still, it is not something left for me to do only because “I am the man…I should show that I am interested in her…I should make her feel cherished…A man should show he’s intentions…”. No, even when it costs no money at all, we are both as involved and cooperative. So it’s not just about money as you put it out.

Doesn't contribute to the conversation at all. She's wearing sweats and talking on her cell phone to someone else the entire time. He picks her up and drops her off - she sits in the back seat. He sings, dances, does back handsprings, and she watches and eats popcorn. If this was what you were describing - I could see how she would be considered a spectator

Come on, you know what I am talking about. In a date of course both will dress according to the occasion and do whatever activity HE planned and HE pays for (unless they try something free). It is the guy who comes up with the initiative, planning, leads, etc. So women pretty much just follow his plan.

To MOST people, dating is a way to get to know someone

Hope it was that way as many seem to make it seem as a job interview getting upset if the man used a coupon, went to a cheap place to eat, didn’t pay for the woman, etc. If it was an activity to know each other than it wouldn’t really matter where a girl eats, if the guy used a coupon, if the girl paid, if the girl offered and the guy accepted, etc. women should stop paying attention to those things and just enjoy a man’s company.

Have you actually dated real women or just escorts?

I could throw a jab at ya’ too but, oh well, let’s move on…

If a woman asked you out, paid for your dinner, and entertained you - would you consider yourself a spectator? Surely, many Asian women have done this for you - were you a spectator?

Nope, I was as involved as her with the date and didn’t just sat there and let her do it all for me. “Hey Onihc, there’s this cherry blossom festival in X part of the city. I’ll pick you up this Saturday morning, let’s go!” I don’t just sit there thinking “Hhhhmm it’s our first date. She’s the one who asked, she will take care of the planning. Besides, I want to know her motives and see if she really likes me and after the initial stages (after months or years) I’ll see if I do something nice for her”. Nope, regardless of her asking me out I’ll prepare the food to take on our picnic, take the blanket, etc. It’s OUR date regardless of who asked who. When I ask them out, same thing. Remember the story of the girl I asked out and refused to let her pay but ended up hiding a note on my jacket at the end of our day asking when we will go out again and left a small bill in it? Hey, each culture has its thing. I even do it with my buddies. If we are going to, say, the cricket game and they bought my ticket, cool. When we’re there, we don’t even ask or calculate or anything, I just go get some snacks, drinks, etc. and come back with them “Hey guys, help yourself” or after the game I suggest places to eat and simply take care of the bill. No need to calculate or feel entitled from either party.

If American men did not prefer to pursue, I would have asked out many more American men

Yes, but if American men prefer it, so do women. I don’t remember women marching for so called equality and also including dating traditions to change and let them take the initiative, pay, etc. from the start and not until months of initial stages or months of relationship have passed. Women keep saying they fear rejection, it is up to the man, they want to see if a man likes them so therefore he should pursue, etc. We’ve seen it right here in the forum. You WOULD but it didn’t happen.

I find the fact that you even think of sex in terms of "free" or "not free" kind of disgusting. Am I alone in this?

Change the word if you want and call it “effortless”. Where a man does not take you out, does not romance you, does not have a formal relationship, does not make you feel he “is the one”, does not make you feel special, does not take you out, etc. He simply has sex with you, no strings attached, and goodbye. I don’t like it nor support it but it exists: sex buddies, sex hook ups, one night stands, etc.

[Dewdroplet76]

Originally Posted by onihC

Almost half a page of women giving each other high-fives. Reminds me of high school. The whole “yeei for girl power”.



That term exists, live with it. Men have to work it to get to that point unless you believe in “free sex” (sex buddies, sex hook ups, one night stands, etc.).



Privilege in the sense that you get asked out, taken out to eat, drinks, entertainment, etc. without you really putting any effort other than just looking nice, like him, and enjoy what he planned for you. I enjoy those things too when a woman asks me out. Difference is that I don’t care if she asked me out for me to just let her take care of me and that’s it. I’ll do my part too, not just show up and enjoy the ride. It’s OUR date, not just mine regardless of who asked who or if it’s the very first date or months of dating.



Go back to a page or two before this one so I don’t have to explain it again. Dates can cost money. Some cost more than others and, sure, you’ll have some that won’t cost at all. Still, it is not something left for me to do only because “I am the man…I should show that I am interested in her…I should make her feel cherished…A man should show he’s intentions…”. No, even when it costs no money at all, we are both as involved and cooperative. So it’s not just about money as you put it out.



Come on, you know what I am talking about. In a date of course both will dress according to the occasion and do whatever activity HE planned and HE pays for (unless they try something free). It is the guy who comes up with the initiative, planning, leads, etc. So women pretty much just follow his plan.



Hope it was that way as many seem to make it seem as a job interview getting upset if the man used a coupon, went to a cheap place to eat, didn’t pay for the woman, etc. If it was an activity to know each other than it wouldn’t really matter where a girl eats, if the guy used a coupon, if the girl paid, if the girl offered and the guy accepted, etc. women should stop paying attention to those things and just enjoy a man’s company.



I could throw a jab at ya’ too but, oh well, let’s move on…



Nope, I was as involved as her with the date and didn’t just sat there and let her do it all for me. “Hey Onihc, there’s this cherry blossom festival in X part of the city. I’ll pick you up this Saturday morning, let’s go!” I don’t just sit there thinking “Hhhhmm it’s our first date. She’s the one who asked, she will take care of the planning. Besides, I want to know her motives and see if she really likes me and after the initial stages (after months or years) I’ll see if I do something nice for her”. Nope, regardless of her asking me out I’ll prepare the food to take on our picnic, take the blanket, etc. It’s OUR date regardless of who asked who. When I ask them out, same thing. Remember the story of the girl I asked out and refused to let her pay but ended up hiding a note on my jacket at the end of our day asking when we will go out again and left a small bill in it? Hey, each culture has its thing. I even do it with my buddies. If we are going to, say, the cricket game and they bought my ticket, cool. When we’re there, we don’t even ask or calculate or anything, I just go get some snacks, drinks, etc. and come back with them “Hey guys, help yourself” or after the game I suggest places to eat and simply take care of the bill. No need to calculate or feel entitled from either party.



Yes, but if American men prefer it, so do women. I don’t remember women marching for so called equality and also including dating traditions to change and let them take the initiative, pay, etc. from the start and not until months of initial stages or months of relationship have passed. Women keep saying they fear rejection, it is up to the man, they want to see if a man likes them so therefore he should pursue, etc. We’ve seen it right here in the forum. You WOULD but it didn’t happen.



Change the word if you want and call it “effortless”. Where a man does not take you out, does not romance you, does not have a formal relationship, does not make you feel he “is the one”, does not make you feel special, does not take you out, etc. He simply has sex with you, no strings attached, and goodbye. I don’t like it nor support it but it exists: sex buddies, sex hook ups, one night stands, etc.

Okay, I throw in the towel. I'm done beating my head against the wall. Maybe some day you will reread your posts and realize that when it's the man that pays - you call the woman a spectator, a hooker, privileged, etc. - and when it's the woman that pays on a date with YOU - it's equal.

Maybe some day you'll even realize that you have absolutely no idea what women are thinking - because if you think that what you described above is what any of us think when we are going out on a first date - well, I've always though there was hope for you but seriously, now I'm not sure.

It's sad - we had just gotten to see eye to eye on one thing in our DM's - and then I realize - you just don't get it. Really, you just don't get it at all. You always talk about double standards - well, take a good look in the mirror.

I hope one day you do figure it all out and realize how mistaken you've been. I think that will be one of the best days of our life. When you actually respect women - you stand a chance of falling in love with one of them!

[onihC]

Originally Posted by Dewdrop93

Okay, I throw in the towel. I'm done beating my head against the wall.

Fine, we’ll agree to disagree and move on. No hard feelings from my part.

Maybe some day you will reread your posts and realize that when it's the man that pays - you call the woman a spectator, a hooker, privileged, etc. - and when it's the woman that pays on a date with YOU - it's equal.

Nope, when a woman pay I pay too. As simple as that. Go back and read the examples on what happens when a woman asks me out or vice versa. Did you read the one about the cherry blossom festival? Did you understand it? Did you read the one about the cricket game with my buddies? Did you understand it?

It's sad - we had just gotten to see eye to eye on one thing in our DM's - and then I realize - you just don't get it

I could say you don’t get it either and that is why I have to repeat the examples.

Really, you just don't get it at all. You always talk about double standards - well, take a good look in the mirror

Don’t see a double-standard when there are no entitlements when I date. Go back and read the examples and maybe you get it this time. Different cultures may sound a bit confusing.

[Mr. GE]

the question is between the Wife & Mistress only... not the husband or the kids. So the answer is still always the wife when its between those two... always! And here's why

In the end she is better:
1) The majority of husbands do not leave their wife in the end... You may ask, how is this better? The reason its better is because The Wife now has the power of decision making. She can either choose to stay with the husband or leave. If she lets him stay she can make him go out of his way to prove his love for her (ie Koby Bryant's wife). Or she can leave (Tiger's Wife) and take half his assets. Get Child Support if they have kids. and possible alimony. Bottomline is she has the power to decide... So she's better. Also, now she knows the signs or tendencies, so if he ever does it again she can bolt. There are no repercussions to leave the mistress.

2) If he leaves she is still better... The decision is made for her, but its probably for the better in that scenario because: Who wants to be married to someone that doesnt want them? And any man who leaves his family for another woman is not worth a damn. So in this scenario... She still gets all the things mentioned in #1 if she left him. And she gets rid of a crappy man she probably needed to get rid of anyway even though she didnt realize it. And she also knows the signs so is better off for it when dealing with other men.

During the Affair she is still better:
3) The mistress cannot freely be around the husband in public or friends, family, or business partners. And she probably can't have him around her circle even, especially if they know he's married. Don't get me wrong their bold people who are able to do it, but the majority of the times this is not the case as someone will not approve. And They will not allow the mistress to be around like its ok without telling the wife which leads to #1 or #2 above.

4) The mistress has to work around the wife's schedule when dealing with the husband. If he hasn't left, his first responsibility will still be to his wife and family. He will work his time around those obligations. So she is last in the pecking order.

5) Even if she is getting money, the money he spends on the mistress is leftover... He pays his family bills first then the rest goes to the mistress if any. So if the s--- hit the fan, he would not spend a dime on her as she is not priority.

6) The wife can cheat without being noticed. If he is spending a lot of time with the mistress... Most wives know or eventually know. And again they have a choice. They can turn their attention to another man if they choose too. And most cheating husbands will not even have a clue because they are so focused on their mistress. This gives her the advantage because the mistress is the focus. she knows he is cheating but she doesnt' know she is...

7) The husband can leave the mistress with no repercussions. There are many to leave the wife... Family & Friends are probably going to be upset and disappointed in him if the cheating is known. if kids are involved they will certainly be upset. And theirs the money mentioned in #1. None of that if he leaves the mistress.

Bottomline is the percentages are against the mistress... It's a short term win when he is with her but a long term loss. Rarely does it work out. And when it does the mistress is known as a homewrecker. So most mistresses have to get over the heartbreak of dealing with a man they never really had. Most need therapy after dealing with a dysfunctional relationship like this. NEVER is the mistress in a better position than the wife.... NEVER