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Old 08-25-2011, 11:32 PM
 
116 posts, read 153,158 times
Reputation: 192

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Set a dinner date with a guy I met on a dating site. The day of the date, I texted him to confirm around noon. He never texted back, but I figured there were many possible reasons for that so I went ahead to the restaurant. At the point where he was 10 mins late, I texted him to let him know I was at the restaurant. Again, no response. He showed up another 10 minutes later, cell phone in hand, moments before I was about to give up and get seated to dine alone. He didn't acknowledge his lateness or the lack of communication. Date went okay, no awkward silences, etc., but I was already turned off by what I saw to be his inconsiderate / borderline rude behavior before the date so I decided not to see him again.

Another guy I met on the same site messaged me back and forth a few times, then proposed we switch to the phone and we exchanged #s. I explained my kids would be out between 5-8:30pm tonight, and that would be the best time to call. He agreed to call me between those hours. Only, he didn't. Around 9:15pm I got a text from him saying he'd just come in from a long, arduous bike ride in the hills which he'd enjoyed very much, and was now fixing himself dinner. No apology, no acknowledgment of his flake out. Apparently, the bike ride was a higher priority for him than making a good impression on me. Again, I am left with a bad taste in my mouth and won't be responding to his texts or taking his calls going forward.

See, I tend to think if a guy is inconsiderate out of the gate, that tendency is only going to get worse. Am I wrong about this? Am I out of line to expect the guy to make an effort to put his best foot forward for me? Has dating etiquette deteriorated to the point that this is the norm, or am I just drawing an unusually high percentage of douchebags?
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Old 08-25-2011, 11:43 PM
 
4,837 posts, read 8,835,670 times
Reputation: 3026
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA-LA-LA View Post
Doesn't Anyone Try To Make A Good First Impression Anymore?
It's men trying desperately to avoid being "friend zoned."
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Old 08-25-2011, 11:52 PM
 
116 posts, read 153,158 times
Reputation: 192
Default Huh?

So they'd rather risk being rude, and getting themselves moved out of both the "friend" zone and the "potential boyfriend" zone?
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Old 08-26-2011, 01:06 AM
 
Location: Wu Dang Mountain
12,940 posts, read 21,579,966 times
Reputation: 8681
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA-LA-LA View Post
Set a dinner date with a guy I met on a dating site...
You're hopelessly old-fashioned.

No matter your age, I'd be willing to bet that you're one of those women that should have been born a few decades earlier, when men were real men. You probably expect them to say "Please" and "Thank you"; carry heavy things and hold doors for you; pull your chair out for you in restaurants, and generally act like suave, sophisticated, classy guys, not egotistical, entitled and spoiled little boys.

You poor thing.

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Old 08-26-2011, 01:52 AM
 
591 posts, read 863,868 times
Reputation: 691
Quote:
Originally Posted by SifuPhil View Post
You're hopelessly old-fashioned.

No matter your age, I'd be willing to bet that you're one of those women that should have been born a few decades earlier, when men were real men. You probably expect them to say "Please" and "Thank you"; carry heavy things and hold doors for you; pull your chair out for you in restaurants, and generally act like suave, sophisticated, classy guys, not egotistical, entitled and spoiled little boys.

You poor thing.


Older guy here, I will never change. Today at two separate grocery stores I was polite to two women; it was chivalrous to do so (logjam in the aisles, someone had to wait for the other to pass, etc.). Not hitting on them, not even looking actually. But I could have, the reaction I got from them was that positive.

If there were pictures of my intereactions with these two women you might caption them with: 'Holy sh*t! he actually has manners! I wish my guy/the guy(s) I'm dating did!"

You may think women don't like chivalry/manners, but actually they are starving for it. And a lot of us guys love to do that because not only is it the right thing to do, it actually feels good, not for our self-worth, but to see how it makes them feel happier at that moment. You catch flies with honey, so to speak. I do NOT mean that you have to tell them or use body language to suggest: "I'm going to open your door because you are the weaker sex"; they will read the bitterness before you act, and resent being treated as a child. You make it as if it's a gift to them.

Young men think they have to act like they don't care to get a woman to chase them, but honestly that won't work, unless you are the alpha and usually can call all the shots. You just can't grovel and put women on pedestals; that's what they really don't like. They want you to act like men; a real man knows when to lead and when to allow someone else to have their own way. That's all it's about, really. Ego be damned.
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Old 08-26-2011, 02:40 AM
 
Location: Wu Dang Mountain
12,940 posts, read 21,579,966 times
Reputation: 8681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Blues View Post
Older guy here, I will never change. Today at two separate grocery stores I was polite to two women; it was chivalrous to do so (logjam in the aisles, someone had to wait for the other to pass, etc.). Not hitting on them, not even looking actually. But I could have, the reaction I got from them was that positive.

If there were pictures of my intereactions with these two women you might caption them with: 'Holy sh*t! he actually has manners! I wish my guy/the guy(s) I'm dating did!"
Most excellent.

Quote:
You may think women don't like chivalry/manners, but actually they are starving for it. And a lot of us guys love to do that because not only is it the right thing to do, it actually feels good, not for our self-worth, but to see how it makes them feel happier at that moment. You catch flies with honey, so to speak. I do NOT mean that you have to tell them or use body language to suggest: "I'm going to open your door because you are the weaker sex"; they will read the bitterness before you act, and resent being treated as a child. You make it as if it's a gift to them.
As is my wont on this forum, I post largely tongue-in-cheek.

The nice thing about this system is that it is self-perpetuating. We do it, not because it's socially expected (because it certainly isn't), but because at root it makes us feel good. That feeling produces subtle physiological changes in us that are readable by, I am convinced, 99% of the female population. They react in kind. I think then, and only then, does the social conditioning kick in, at least for us old timers.

Which brings us to your final point -

Quote:
Young men think they have to act like they don't care to get a woman to chase them, but honestly that won't work, unless you are the alpha and usually can call all the shots. You just can't grovel and put women on pedestals; that's what they really don't like. They want you to act like men; a real man knows when to lead and when to allow someone else to have their own way. That's all it's about, really. Ego be damned.
Well said.

I think the "act like they don't care" syndrome derives from the whole cultural thing of youth - to appear indifferent and rebellious. It's part and parcel of the late teens - early twenties age group.

As for groveling and pedestals, I know a few women that would actually enjoy that, but then they also wear a lot of leather and carry floggers in their purse ...




What's the not-so-old saying? "Lead, Follow or Get Out of the Way". A master tactician knows when to employ each to maximum efficiency.

Great post!
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Old 08-26-2011, 03:05 AM
 
Location: The Mitten
845 posts, read 1,343,580 times
Reputation: 741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Blues View Post
Older guy here, I will never change. Today at two separate grocery stores I was polite to two women; it was chivalrous to do so (logjam in the aisles, someone had to wait for the other to pass, etc.). Not hitting on them, not even looking actually. But I could have, the reaction I got from them was that positive.

If there were pictures of my intereactions with these two women you might caption them with: 'Holy sh*t! he actually has manners! I wish my guy/the guy(s) I'm dating did!"

You may think women don't like chivalry/manners, but actually they are starving for it. And a lot of us guys love to do that because not only is it the right thing to do, it actually feels good, not for our self-worth, but to see how it makes them feel happier at that moment. You catch flies with honey, so to speak. I do NOT mean that you have to tell them or use body language to suggest: "I'm going to open your door because you are the weaker sex"; they will read the bitterness before you act, and resent being treated as a child. You make it as if it's a gift to them.

Young men think they have to act like they don't care to get a woman to chase them, but honestly that won't work, unless you are the alpha and usually can call all the shots. You just can't grovel and put women on pedestals; that's what they really don't like. They want you to act like men; a real man knows when to lead and when to allow someone else to have their own way. That's all it's about, really. Ego be damned.
I was actually brought up this way; holding doors open for women to enter first, helping with heavy objects, picking things up they dropped, ect. It does feel good inside, too.

However, my friends all tell me, "Stop being the nice guy. Next time a woman comes to enter a door, shove it in their face. You'll at least get some expression." I at least laugh at them but I know I can't stop. It's almost like tying a shoe; once you have done it for years, you can try to learn a new way but you always return to the way you have done it.

I just hope you're right about the whole chivalry or manners bit.
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Old 08-26-2011, 07:14 AM
 
5,730 posts, read 10,093,408 times
Reputation: 8051
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA-LA-LA View Post
Another guy I met on the same site messaged me back and forth a few times, then proposed we switch to the phone and we exchanged #s. I explained my kids would be out between 5-8:30pm tonight, and that would be the best time to call. He agreed to call me between those hours. Only, he didn't. Around 9:15pm I got a text from him saying he'd just come in from a long, arduous bike ride in the hills which he'd enjoyed very much, and was now fixing himself dinner. No apology, no acknowledgment of his flake out. Apparently, the bike ride was a higher priority for him than making a good impression on me. Again, I am left with a bad taste in my mouth and won't be responding to his texts or taking his calls going forward.

See, I tend to think if a guy is inconsiderate out of the gate, that tendency is only going to get worse. Am I wrong about this? Am I out of line to expect the guy to make an effort to put his best foot forward for me? Has dating etiquette deteriorated to the point that this is the norm, or am I just drawing an unusually high percentage of douchebags?

I'm one of those old fashioned guys, but I'd cut guy #2 some slack... sometimes things happen, you get busy doing stuff and it's not like he couldn't call you tomorrow.

And (No disrespect) but your just some chick on the internet...
It's not like he's engaged to you.

if your so uptight that he got busy living life... he probably doesn't want to date you.

Now if it were a pattern, or he did like guy #1...
That's different.
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Old 08-26-2011, 07:46 AM
 
Location: US
5,139 posts, read 12,676,660 times
Reputation: 5385
Hmmm...well I see it as:

Now you know why they are on dating sites, still single and are not getting hook ups in real life or from friends.

I agree it will only get worse more often than not. I wouldn't even bother with someone just as a friend who acts like that. Its rude and wastes my time. Two things I do not find acceptable. There are better people out there, so keep looking.
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Old 08-26-2011, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Back in the gym...Yo Adrian!
10,168 posts, read 20,716,770 times
Reputation: 19858
Quote:
Originally Posted by LA-LA-LA View Post
Set a dinner date with a guy I met on a dating site. The day of the date, I texted him to confirm around noon. He never texted back, but I figured there were many possible reasons for that so I went ahead to the restaurant. At the point where he was 10 mins late, I texted him to let him know I was at the restaurant. Again, no response. He showed up another 10 minutes later, cell phone in hand, moments before I was about to give up and get seated to dine alone. He didn't acknowledge his lateness or the lack of communication. Date went okay, no awkward silences, etc., but I was already turned off by what I saw to be his inconsiderate / borderline rude behavior before the date so I decided not to see him again.

Another guy I met on the same site messaged me back and forth a few times, then proposed we switch to the phone and we exchanged #s. I explained my kids would be out between 5-8:30pm tonight, and that would be the best time to call. He agreed to call me between those hours. Only, he didn't. Around 9:15pm I got a text from him saying he'd just come in from a long, arduous bike ride in the hills which he'd enjoyed very much, and was now fixing himself dinner. No apology, no acknowledgment of his flake out. Apparently, the bike ride was a higher priority for him than making a good impression on me. Again, I am left with a bad taste in my mouth and won't be responding to his texts or taking his calls going forward.

See, I tend to think if a guy is inconsiderate out of the gate, that tendency is only going to get worse. Am I wrong about this? Am I out of line to expect the guy to make an effort to put his best foot forward for me? Has dating etiquette deteriorated to the point that this is the norm, or am I just drawing an unusually high percentage of douchebags?

You aren't wrong for feeling the way you do. I think part of the problem is that all of this cyber-communication (texting as a primary means of communication) lends itself to dismissiveness and selfishness. It is not evil in and of itself, but the casual nature of texting goes hand in hand with poor communication and the "facebook" nature of how many young adults communicate today.

At least you discovered these flaws early on before things had a chance to get off the ground. Don't give up, somewhere out there you'll find someone who still has class and manners.

Last edited by Coolhand68; 08-26-2011 at 08:44 AM.. Reason: spelling
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