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Old 02-02-2012, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Land of Thought and Flow
8,323 posts, read 15,145,234 times
Reputation: 4957

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This is more of an off-shoot from the Open Relationship thread. It was getting a bit off topic, so I'm starting a new thread.

Let me start off by saying that I am the child of divorced parents raised by my father. I've seen and read the divorce paperwork between them - the breakdown of assets, custody arrangements, etc. Quite frankly, with the situation the way it was, I'm glad that my parents got divorced.

The best decision that my parents made as a couple, was to end it.

Now, to reference back to the original post that made me decide to start a new thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
I am not trying to be contentious here, but what is the difference? I am going on the assumption that both parents are equally suited to be custodial parents,
One difference, for instance, is the ability/capability to afford a home big enough for the children to live in.

Something that worked in my father's favour was the ability to continue paying the mortgage on the house by himself. It was some semblance of "security" that we were able to stay in the same house in the same school district with the same friends. The judge realized this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
but you said you thought your father was a better choice in your case.
I never said such a thing. Only that a judge realized that a father can make a good custodial parent of two girls. And this was nearly 19 years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
It's not stereotypical, I'm afraid. It's typical.
How exactly do males get screwed over?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
Were the arrangements unfair to your mother? Did she demonstrate by her behavior that she should not have been allowed to raise you equally? Or did the court just screw her over?
My mother would have been perfectly capable of raising my sister and myself. However, keeping some semblance of familiarity was something the female judge felt was important to two young girls whose parents were divorcing.

How do you think you'll be screwed over?

Because, if you think not living in the same house as your sons would be devastating, would not the same apply to my mother?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
Well, I'm going to be in misery if I'm married, because I'm married to someone who causes me misery. If I'm not married, I'll be in misery because I won't be able to be with and raise my children
Then why not divorce and petition for custody?

I mean, if my father, in 1993, was able to get custody of two young girls (which, my sister was only 2-years old, to give some perspective), I don't see why you can't petition a judge to give you custody of your children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
They'd rather have two parents than one and a fraction. Their security is better when there are two parents in the home.
It depends on the home environment.

My parents were unbearable and I never felt a shred of guilt or depression or anger... or really much of anything except relief when they split up.

In the end, I do question why people stay miserable for the sake of their children. The misery one experiences will affect the children, whether the parents mean to or not. Children know. They're a lot more perceptive than you imagine.

And for those parents who abandon ship once the kids leave for college - they're doing a lot more harm than ending it when the kids are younger. When a kid leaves for college, their parents' home is their security blanket, the one thing they know will remain the same despite how hectic life and college gets. Having parents divorce each other at that crucial time basically destroys that last "security blanket".

Now, I realize that divorce can be really, really nasty... but is it really much better to live with somebody for who makes you miserable for years on end? Christopher Titus's Love is Evol really comes to mind here.
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:38 AM
 
4,862 posts, read 7,945,121 times
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Is it better to be miserable? IMO I would say sometimes. For both parties involved it may just come down to dollars and cents. Now this is coming from a person who has never been married and will never get married. i have just beeen privy to quite a few people who have had marital issues..

The thing is today parents divorcing isn't such a big thing anymore and there are many people who are miserable in their marriages but just keep them going for social or business concerns.. Then again there are some people who are very happilly married..
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:53 AM
 
2,472 posts, read 3,191,685 times
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It's sensationalist propaganda we've been fed for quite some time: only the authentic, virtuous humans would stick with any situation no matter what and never give up.

Of course, it's fallacious though. People grow and change and can become less compatible.
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:58 AM
 
Location: England
1,168 posts, read 2,500,165 times
Reputation: 1009
I have this question in mind right now. Want to divorce, but feel I shouldn't. Why can't I? I don't know....many reasons...rules....rights and wrongs......fear, used to things being this way.....cowardice. Wish I had the guts. But then, what if I am wrong to divorce...what if....what if........Divorce is a sad thing. I admire people who have the guts to end it when it really is time to call it quits.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:01 AM
 
Location: southern california
61,289 posts, read 87,247,282 times
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42 million divorces since 1975 (no fault)
not one person, not one, no matter how great the settlement, felt they got a fair deal.
not one said, hey no hard feelings thanks for the time together .
not one said thanks for all the cash
not one said thanks for all the love
the person that said better to have loved and lost than never had
loved at all
they were not talking about marriage and divorce
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Texas
3,975 posts, read 4,998,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aganusn View Post
It's sensationalist propaganda we've been fed for quite some time: only the authentic, virtuous humans would stick with any situation no matter what and never give up.

Of course, it's fallacious though. People grow and change and can become less compatible.
I think nowadays, people come up with too many reasons to split. In my mind, what is virtuous is to give it your all. Do not divorce for easy or trivial reasons. If you seriously have tried every avenue, then yes, you shouldn't have to live your life in misery. I just think that while yesteryear's view (never give up, never divorce) is outdated, that today's view of "if it gets hard, I'm divorcing" is too prevalent.

And yea, kids really see a lot more than parents think. My opinion is that if mom and dad are having issues with each other, they also have some issues with the kids. If those same parents are happier being apart, the kids will benefit from said happiness. JMO!!
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Land of Thought and Flow
8,323 posts, read 15,145,234 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
42 million divorces since 1975 (no fault)
not one person, not one, no matter how great the settlement, felt they got a fair deal.
not one said, hey no hard feelings thanks for the time together
Not entirely true. I know two people who married each other then later split with no remorse or hard feelings. They handled it like mature adults. They were extremely compatible as a couple, but once they married, it was just not working out. They tried for two years and called it quits.

They're still great friends.

If my husband and I ever got a divorce, I'd want it look something like this:


Why? To show commitment and fulfillment of a promise we made to each other: That if marriage didn't work out, we'd still be the best of friends.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Baltimore, MD
11,343 posts, read 9,238,914 times
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gallowsCalibrator wrote:
Quote:
I'm glad that my parents got divorced.
The best decision that my parents made as a couple, was to end it.
I wish mine did as I have no doubt I would have had a better life. It was amazing they stayed together for 50+ years. My mom could have done better and it's a shame she didn't. There were some very bad times growing up for me and I have a lot of bad memories because of it. I was brought up Catholic (I have been atheist for a long time now) and I have no doubt that was the main reason why they stayed together. I'm sure staying together because a couples religion frowns on divorce happens a lot.

A miserable marriage and raising children is a bad match. I know first hand.

I'm divorced and looking back I wish it was done sooner. I did the right thing by turning down couseling as I knew it would be a waste of time. At that point it was broken beyond repair.
As if it matters no children were involved.
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Lower east side of Toronto
10,567 posts, read 12,791,355 times
Reputation: 9399
Divorce is not practiced by the truely upper class types..I know of a few old couples who are very well to do - who have been married for 50 to 60 years...They understand that to maintain an empire - you have to be loyal and stick it out - even if you are NOT perfect for each other...divorced is frowned up by the truely noble.. Some say that it is bad to "stay together for the sake of the children" - It's not! Better grow up and if you make your bed you had better sleep in it...put your selfish teenage type needs aside and get down to the buisness of being responsible for the children that BOTH of you brought into the world.

I look at my mate of 30 years - totally the wrong person - not the best partner..not very loyal - and not a lot of class...BUT we both believed in family - and we stuck it out...the end result is now that the four kids are grown is that - ALL of the chidren are balanced stable contributors to society...To this day my adult children are pleased when I spend time with my mate...People love and need stabilty...

So was it worth the price of spending 30 years not being loved as I believed I should have been? YES. The kids were worth my personal sacrafice...and later today - I will go visit the so-called X - and we will have supper...and I will gently kiss her good night on the lips as I leave...If you have children you are married forever - If you do not have children - and feel that you are in the wrong place - get up and walk away...
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Old 02-02-2012, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,645 posts, read 38,583,753 times
Reputation: 11780
Quote:
Originally Posted by gallowsCalibrator View Post


One difference, for instance, is the ability/capability to afford a home big enough for the children to live in.

Something that worked in my father's favour was the ability to continue paying the mortgage on the house by himself. It was some semblance of "security" that we were able to stay in the same house in the same school district with the same friends. The judge realized this.
But your mom could conceivably have done the same thing, if your dad had been forced to sell the home and pay alimony/child support to your mom. Since income and assets are jointly divided between each parent, income should not be a factor in determining who should be the primary custodial parent.

Quote:

I never said such a thing. Only that a judge realized that a father can make a good custodial parent of two girls. And this was nearly 19 years ago.
But in your words "realized," etc., you imply that you agreed with that decision. If a judge were to make a decision I vehemently disagreed with, I would not conclude that he or she had "realized" anything.

Quote:

How exactly do males get screwed over?
The vast majority of them do not get equal parenting time, but they pay, through alimony and/or child support, an equal or superior proportion of the child's expenses. Again, I am not going to be satisfied with being forced to move out of a home I pay for (together with my wife) and see my children once or twice a month.


Quote:
My mother would have been perfectly capable of raising my sister and myself. However, keeping some semblance of familiarity was something the female judge felt was important to two young girls whose parents were divorcing.
So why couldn't your mom have had equal parenting time? How come your mom and dad couldn't have moved into the home for weeks or a month alternatively so you girls could have stayed in the same home? I have seen arrangements like this, but admittedly they've only come into vogue within the last decade or so.

Quote:
How do you think you'll be screwed over?
While I don't honestly know that this will happen, I know it is a distinct possibility because it has happened to countless friends of mine who are divorced fathers.


Quote:
Because, if you think not living in the same house as your sons would be devastating, would not the same apply to my mother?
I am not trying to take the kids from her in any way. She, on the other hand, wouldn't hesitate to try to do that to me.


Quote:

Then why not divorce and petition for custody?
Because I don't trust the "family" court system to do right by me.


Quote:
I mean, if my father, in 1993, was able to get custody of two young girls (which, my sister was only 2-years old, to give some perspective), I don't see why you can't petition a judge to give you custody of your children.
I can petition........doesn't mean they'll listen to me.

Quote:

It depends on the home environment.

My parents were unbearable and I never felt a shred of guilt or depression or anger... or really much of anything except relief when they split up.
The environment for the kids is fine. The parents' relationship is not good. But we aren't violent or abusive towards the kids.

Quote:
In the end, I do question why people stay miserable for the sake of their children. The misery one experiences will affect the children, whether the parents mean to or not. Children know. They're a lot more perceptive than you imagine.
I know they are. But I grew up without a father, and I am still affected by that to this day. I swore I wouldn't put my kids through the same thing.

Quote:
And for those parents who abandon ship once the kids leave for college - they're doing a lot more harm than ending it when the kids are younger. When a kid leaves for college, their parents' home is their security blanket, the one thing they know will remain the same despite how hectic life and college gets. Having parents divorce each other at that crucial time basically destroys that last "security blanket".
When I left for college, I never, ever wanted to come back home to live, and barely to visit. I didn't call my mom for more than a week, and I only did because I was returning her call (and man, was she po'd). I didn't need a security blanket. I wanted to be out in the world on my own.
Quote:


Now, I realize that divorce can be really, really nasty... but is it really much better to live with somebody for who makes you miserable for years on end? Christopher Titus's Love is Evol really comes to mind here.
If it means being with my kids every day, I will put up with it. I have been putting up with it.
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