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Old 02-21-2012, 08:26 PM
 
2,490 posts, read 3,389,762 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aganusn View Post
This isn't the 20s. Stop pretending to be a puritan.
Maybe the 50s. The 20s? Not so much...

But I agree with the poster above me though about acting responsibly.
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:22 AM
 
2,096 posts, read 1,471,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellakin123 View Post
Exactly, it's ethnicity, but not ALL and it has nothing to do with religion. Those people may not be moving to America but I'm certain it exists in other countries too. Let's face it, if you ask me it's about morals. If some girl wants to have multiple babies with different baby daddys, go right ahead. Stupid is the next guy to come along who takes a dip in that pool. Got a relative exactly like that. My husband's cousin has a daughter that can't seem to keep her legs closed. Yes, that's harsh, but I call it like I see it. I think she has 6 kids and she's not even 30. I think 1 or 2 might have the same father. She had given birth and got knocked up by some other guy 6 WEEKS LATER. The baby is about a year old and he's gone too.
Good morning,

It's not ethnicity, it's self-selection of the immigrant population, and proximity to the US. I'm sure culture plays some role in expectations, but not from an ethnicity standpoint. Africans have the highest immigrant degree attainment in both bachelors and advanced degrees. Asians/Pacific Islanders are 2nd. Europeans are higher than the US average, but not as far ahead as Africans and Asians.

Hispanic immigrants are far behind the US average but they have an easier ability to get into the country than the other groups due to geographic location and illegal immigration.
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
7,809 posts, read 9,309,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese View Post
You husbands counosin should not be seeing anyone until she is a bit more older and wiser, she should wait till her kids are more grown and she should start going back into the dating pool.
I meant it's his cousin's daughter. She is one of 3 daughters. The other 2 seem "normal" lol. One is married but had 2 out of wedlock. The guy she married is not the father of those 2 kids. Anyway, this one needs to stop doing a lot of things. She's at an age where she should know better. She's just trashy. It's a long story behind them. I can understand a pregancy happens by mistake once but 6?? but that's a whole other topic
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:54 AM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
7,809 posts, read 9,309,681 times
Reputation: 9066
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom123 View Post
Good morning,

It's not ethnicity, it's self-selection of the immigrant population, and proximity to the US. I'm sure culture plays some role in expectations, but not from an ethnicity standpoint. Africans have the highest immigrant degree attainment in both bachelors and advanced degrees. Asians/Pacific Islanders are 2nd. Europeans are higher than the US average, but not as far ahead as Africans and Asians. You are talking only about their education. That is not the topic of the article.

Hispanic immigrants are far behind the US average but they have an easier ability to get into the country than the other groups due to geographic location and illegal immigration.
What does their location or illegal immigration have to do with having children out of wedlock?



If you read the article, it speaks to ethnicities, financial and educational statuses. What I didn't like about this article is that it focused only on one city in one state. Look at the statistics overall in the U.S. and by each state. This is broken down by race.

Children in single-parent families by race - Data Across States - KIDS COUNT Data Center

This link looks at the ages of the mothers along with ethncity:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db18.htm

Last edited by bellakin123; 02-22-2012 at 09:03 AM..
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Old 02-22-2012, 09:39 AM
 
2,096 posts, read 1,471,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellakin123 View Post
What does their location or illegal immigration have to do with having children out of wedlock?
Good morning,

I was specifically referring to your back and forth with another poster about immigrants. You used ethnicity as reasoning in your agreement about immigrants moving to America, getting a degree and building a family. I showed other causes that have nothing to do with ethnicity. The higher success of African immigrants compared to other immigrants, and in stark contrast to African-Americans drives this point home.

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronxguyanese
Im like come one YOu dont see Asian and other Eastern people moving to America having these problems. They go to school get a degree and build a family.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellakin123 View Post
Exactly, it's ethnicity, but not ALL and it has nothing to do with religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bellakin123 View Post
If you read the article, it speaks to ethnicities, financial and educational statuses. What I didn't like about this article is that it focused only on one city in one state. Look at the statistics overall in the U.S. and by each state. This is broken down by race.

Children in single-parent families by race - Data Across States - KIDS COUNT Data Center

This link looks at the ages of the mothers along with ethncity:
Products - Data Briefs - Number 18 - May 2009
I am aware of these stats, actually I read these exact links a few weeks ago. Thanks for providing them. Race is not what drives these stats, it is a correlation.

Think about it: 50 years ago during the height of segregation, the vast majority of African-American children were born within a marriage. Their race/ethnicity didn't change over these last 50 years, the CULTURE did.

I'm not trying to attack you, I'm simply trying to say that culture is the problem and history shows ethnicity is irrelevant for a good in-wedlock birth rate.
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:11 AM
 
87 posts, read 182,809 times
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I actually read an article somewhere that said that it's rational for poor women to give birth young and out of wedlock. The basic argument is this. If you're poor, chances are you have less access to nutritious food, educational opportunities, and decent health care. Your earning power is unlikely to grow much if you waited to have children, whereas your fertility would decline much faster than someone who has access to nutritious food and good healthcare.

If you didn't have access to a good education, then your primary attractive quality to men is beauty/youth. The stresses you deal with living in poverty would also age you faster so your attractiveness depreciates at a far faster rate. Given that you have a small window of time when you are attractive and fertile, doesn't it make sense to have children when your attractiveness is at its peak? After all, you are unlikely to be able to attract better men even if you waited.

Women aren't stupid. I think someone who grew up in poverty knows that she is unlikely to get commitment from someone who would be good husband/father material. If we accept this, then I don't think it's fair to attack these women for being irresponsible or immoral. They are simply being realistic about their prospects. I think what we're seeing is the class bifurcation of America. Different classes simply have different reproductive strategies. It makes sense for poor uneducated women to have lots of kids and hope one of them is the next Justin Bieber. For educated middle class women the reproductive calculus is entirely different. It doesn't make sense to use the norms of one class to judge another.
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Old 02-22-2012, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
7,809 posts, read 9,309,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jzhang1 View Post
I actually read an article somewhere that said that it's rational for poor women to give birth young and out of wedlock. The basic argument is this. If you're poor, chances are you have less access to nutritious food, educational opportunities, and decent health care. Your earning power is unlikely to grow much if you waited to have children, whereas your fertility would decline much faster than someone who has access to nutritious food and good healthcare.

If you didn't have access to a good education, then your primary attractive quality to men is beauty/youth. The stresses you deal with living in poverty would also age you faster so your attractiveness depreciates at a far faster rate. Given that you have a small window of time when you are attractive and fertile, doesn't it make sense to have children when your attractiveness is at its peak? After all, you are unlikely to be able to attract better men even if you waited.

Women aren't stupid. I think someone who grew up in poverty knows that she is unlikely to get commitment from someone who would be good husband/father material. If we accept this, then I don't think it's fair to attack these women for being irresponsible or immoral. They are simply being realistic about their prospects. I think what we're seeing is the class bifurcation of America. Different classes simply have different reproductive strategies. It makes sense for poor uneducated women to have lots of kids and hope one of them is the next Justin Bieber. For educated middle class women the reproductive calculus is entirely different. It doesn't make sense to use the norms of one class to judge another.
I'd be very interested in reading that article, though I don't agree with it at all. I'm poor and uneducated so I should go out and have lots of babies while I'm 23, perky and pretty? Is that what the article is getting at? Would you have a link for it?
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Old 02-22-2012, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
7,809 posts, read 9,309,681 times
Reputation: 9066
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom123 View Post
Good morning,

I was specifically referring to your back and forth with another poster about immigrants. You used ethnicity as reasoning in your agreement about immigrants moving to America, getting a degree and building a family. I showed other causes that have nothing to do with ethnicity. The higher success of African immigrants compared to other immigrants, and in stark contrast to African-Americans drives this point home.





I am aware of these stats, actually I read these exact links a few weeks ago. Thanks for providing them. Race is not what drives these stats, it is a correlation. not sure what you mean

Think about it: 50 years ago during the height of segregation, the vast majority of African-American children were born within a marriage. Their race/ethnicity didn't change over these last 50 years, the CULTURE did.

I'm not trying to attack you, I'm simply trying to say that culture is the problem and history shows ethnicity is irrelevant for a good in-wedlock birth rate.
No, no attack taken . I was just pointing out what the article was focusing on. I agreed with another poster to a degree but my point is that the article focuses on race, finances and education, all of which are consistent with the links I posted. Just because culture has changed doesn't mean we shouldn't believe in values and morals. There are women out there having kids simply to obtain more public assistance. They're mooching the system and shopping at Prada. But that may be an entirely different topic
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Old 02-22-2012, 12:29 PM
 
87 posts, read 182,809 times
Reputation: 119
Got it
Link
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Old 02-22-2012, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Long Island, NY
7,809 posts, read 9,309,681 times
Reputation: 9066
Quote:
Originally Posted by jzhang1 View Post
Got it
Link
Thanks. I have to say, I don't agree with that logic at all. Bascially they're saying if you're a poor black girl, go out and get pregnant because that's the best thing for you. Really? "For poor teens of color, in contrast, the opportunity costs of early childbirth are much lower. Poor teens can see that their odds of affording a good college followed by a high-paying, high-status career are low. And for poor black girls, the odds of finding someone suitable to marry during peak childbearing years or even during their 20s are much lower. So overall, poor girls of color have much less reason to delay childbearing."

I have to question the validity of this "article". It's a blog and not a trustworthy resource. I'm wondering if they're being completely sarcastic
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