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Old 08-02-2008, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,401,063 times
Reputation: 14692

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
I realize that this is one of those "dreaded" generalizations that will get you flamed on the net, it has been my observation only that when women and men become parents that many other aspects of their lives cease immediately.

If you watch parents at restaurants you will note that almost all of the interaction is between a parent and child. Rarely if ever, do adults have conversations with each other, and when they do it is generally about the children. The true tragedy of this is when grown adults get together to "visit" and end up talking about nothing else.

I cannot count the times that I have been introduced to another woman only to have the first words out of her mouth be "do you have children?" Apparently, they presume the answer to be yes, because when I tell them NO, they are rendered speachless for the duration of the conversation. They simply have NOTHING TO SAY to someone who does not wrap every living moment around parenthood. It's sad really that so many people have no real life apart from being someone's mother or father.

20yrsinBranson
So what if parents interact with the kids? Why is that an issue? I can imagine you'd complain if they ignored the kids and had their own conversation. Then they wouldn't be living up to their responsibilities.

If you don't want to talk about parenthood then don't, however, what's the point in criticizing people who do? Are you that self absorbed that the ONLY conversation you can see value in is one that goes the way YOU think it should?
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Old 08-02-2008, 08:30 PM
 
Location: The #1 sunshine state, Arizona.
12,169 posts, read 17,588,560 times
Reputation: 64102
I like Dave's opinion of childless people. I'm childless. One night last week I was carrying too many plates and glasses into the kitchen. One glass slipped out of my grasp, spilled down the front of my shirtand fell into the sink. I was soaked in cold, wet, sticky juice. After the initial shock wore off, I burst into laughter. If I had a kid this would be a daily occurrence. Glad I didn't sign up for that messy job.
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Old 09-11-2008, 04:22 AM
 
2 posts, read 5,706 times
Reputation: 12
Default A 20 y/o 2 cents

Research has shown that childless women do receive a lot of criticism behind their decisions. But I can also understand why parents are quick to defend their decisions, when becoming a parent becomes a huge part of your identity.

I think it was asked if voluntary childless pick up the slack in the workforce.

I am in university so I can't really comment but I would love to know what other people think about this. Childless women are often perceived as being pretty ruthless in the workforce, what do you think?

As for myself I am 20 and am seriously considering remaining childless. Luckily my parents support this decision, although I think my Mother believes I will change my mind.

I am in a long-term relationship and would rather see that survive than be a Mother. I struggle with the idea of being called selfish when I give so much of myself to everyone around me. Also I don't think anyone has mentioned overpopulation, that is a pretty large part of my decision also.
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Old 09-11-2008, 07:20 AM
 
Location: North Carolina
2,657 posts, read 8,006,281 times
Reputation: 4361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofie View Post
Research has shown that childless women do receive a lot of criticism behind their decisions. But I can also understand why parents are quick to defend their decisions, when becoming a parent becomes a huge part of your identity.

I think it was asked if voluntary childless pick up the slack in the workforce.
In the general community of those who've made the decision to never have kids (and those of us who've always "known" we didn't want them), the term is childfree. Someone like yourself, still in the considering phase, would be childless, as are those who want kids but haven't had them yet

Quote:
I am in university so I can't really comment but I would love to know what other people think about this. Childless women are often perceived as being pretty ruthless in the workforce, what do you think?
*snork* Having been around CF support groups for over 10 years, with the subject given a good sounding, I don't think that's true. In fact, if there's one person I always hated having for a supervisor, it was a woman who was a mother They brought their views on managing a department and people as if they were her home and children.

Quote:
As for myself I am 20 and am seriously considering remaining childless. Luckily my parents support this decision, although I think my Mother believes I will change my mind.
Yeahhhh, you'll hear that. I suggest seeking out some of the moderated CF groups. Childfree Community is one you can read without having to join.

Quote:
I am in a long-term relationship and would rather see that survive than be a Mother. I struggle with the idea of being called selfish when I give so much of myself to everyone around me. Also I don't think anyone has mentioned overpopulation, that is a pretty large part of my decision also.
Get a little older and you'll roll your eyes at the "selfish" epithet I just say "whatever" and get on with my life. We CFs have our own equal views on why we thinking parenting is selfish, an opinion that is just as vigorously rebutted by them.

As to an outward reason for becoming a childfree person - "the world is overpopulated" view is stated, but ultimately it's a decision you have to make for your own benefit. After all, as one well-noted CF has said, parents may say that their children will be the ones paying for our Social Security, but I've yet to hear a parent say "honey! the SS system is going to run out of money by 2040! we better go upstairs and do something about that!"

You'll find a clearer discussion on childfree views in a CF group, like the one to which I linked. You'll find more like-minded people there who've been through the same thought processes as yourself.
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Old 09-11-2008, 08:48 AM
 
113 posts, read 561,601 times
Reputation: 130
I want kids (or -- one kid), some day. That said, I am 25, and just not to that point in my life yet. I like having my nights and weekends to do with as I wish, and having some extra income, freedom to travel, etc. I'm an only child, and grew up in a house where it was generally quiet, got along well with my parents. As such, I can't imagine having many kids -- a loud and boisterous household full of children is ideal to some, but it's not for me.

I can completely respect and understand those who remain childfree by choice. To a degree, I understand their frustration in the world about those who are parents these days. The world has gotten entirely too kid-centric, with absolutely everything ever in life revolving around children. I see children running loose in nice restaurants with the parents doing nothing to stop it, parents assuming their kids are invited to fancy night weddings, and everywhere else that was formerly an adults-only sphere. Just because the parents are invited someplace, doesn't mean the kids are an automatic bring-along.

I was at the movies one time, and the kid behind me kept kicking my chair. Over and over, and giggling during the movie with his parents doing nothing to stop it. I turned around and gave the family an annoyed look -- nothing happened, of course. It continued, and I finally turned around and said "I'm sorry, but your son is kicking my chair repeatedly, can you please ask him to stop?" I would've addressed the kid, but from my experiences and others, some parents get VERY upset about it, no matter how politely you ask that their angelbaby stop acting like a hellion.

If that had been my mom, I would have immediately been told to stop, and made to apologize to the person whose chair I was kicking. Instead, I get a huffy sigh, an angry glare like I just kicked her son back, and the mom halfheartedly waves toward him and tells him to stop. Not ten minutes pass, and he starts again.

As for work, I've had to cover for people who have kids. A coworker has to dash out because school called and the child is sick, the daughter has ballet and the other parent suddenly can't take her. I tend to get screwed in the holiday/vacation time in the summer, because priority is given to those with children who are on break. It happens, and I understand (particularly in the case of sick children), but it is annoying.

All of that said, I do love kids. They can say the funniest things, and there is nothing that melts my heart more than when my boyfriend's nephew reaches his little arms out for me to hold him, or gives me a kiss on my cheek. I hope to have one of my own, when the time is right and I'm ready. But I would never, ever judge those who want to spend their entire lives without dirty diapers and assembling cribs.
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Old 09-12-2008, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Way up high
22,185 posts, read 29,156,590 times
Reputation: 31229
I don't understand why is it such a big deal for someone who wants kids and someone who doesn't?? It doesn't make either person a less of a human being. Some people just don't want that responsibility (myself included) Does it make me selfish?? Maybe a little..I like to have lazy Saturdays in bed, be able to go clubbing, have friends over till wee hours of morning, plan a trip on a 2 hour notice, etc. But that's MY choice...
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:06 AM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,758 posts, read 40,016,529 times
Reputation: 18034
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
So what if parents interact with the kids? Why is that an issue? I can imagine you'd complain if they ignored the kids and had their own conversation. Then they wouldn't be living up to their responsibilities.

If you don't want to talk about parenthood then don't, however, what's the point in criticizing people who do? Are you that self absorbed that the ONLY conversation you can see value in is one that goes the way YOU think it should?
Of course parents should interact with their children, but too many of them are overly indulgent of their kids and even treating them as equals, like little adults. Then they are surprised when later on, they turn into terrible teens and have sex too early. Kids are kids and adults are adults and above them in ranking. Parents need to say "no" more often and stick to their guns about it.

I agree with 20yearsinBranson. I think that it's very sad when a woman has nothing else to talk about except her kids. And parents should understand when a childfree adult may have zero interests in hearing about their kids and accomplishments. And if they do talk about their kids, do it only for 50% of the total conversation at most, then talk about whatever the childree person wants to discuss.

Also, some childfree peoplet could be infertile or abused by a bad parent, so hearing about happy family times, could be uncomfortable for them to listen to. So be sensitive to their needs and try to pick up on any subtle hints that they don't want to talk about children. They shouldn't have to come right out and say that they can't conceive or whatever their private history is, in order for you to stop babbling about your kids.

I feel so lucky to live in the US, in the 21st century and have access to birth control. It's so liberating to have complete control over my body and my life. Where I work, it's mostly those that were born in another country that are surprised that I am not married and have no kids by choice. When I ask them why should I have kids, they reply that it's because they are so cute. Then I tell them that I have my dogs and cats for the cute factor in my life. Also, when they are surprised at my real age (this week a 25 year old Sudanese man thought that I was 24), I tell them that my secret is NOT having any kids.
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Old 09-12-2008, 12:03 PM
 
Location: SUNNY AZ
4,589 posts, read 13,131,867 times
Reputation: 1850
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoofie View Post
Research has shown that childless women do receive a lot of criticism behind their decisions. But I can also understand why parents are quick to defend their decisions, when becoming a parent becomes a huge part of your identity.

I think it was asked if voluntary childless pick up the slack in the workforce.

I am in university so I can't really comment but I would love to know what other people think about this. Childless women are often perceived as being pretty ruthless in the workforce, what do you think?

As for myself I am 20 and am seriously considering remaining childless. Luckily my parents support this decision, although I think my Mother believes I will change my mind.

I am in a long-term relationship and would rather see that survive than be a Mother. I struggle with the idea of being called selfish when I give so much of myself to everyone around me. Also I don't think anyone has mentioned overpopulation, that is a pretty large part of my decision also.
How is becoming a parent a "huge" part of your identity? I don't know about most people but the people who make the best parents know who they are BEFORE they have kids .

And as far as voluntary childless "picking up" the workforce....lol....I'll just say I couldn't laugh hard enough
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Old 09-12-2008, 12:10 PM
 
Location: SUNNY AZ
4,589 posts, read 13,131,867 times
Reputation: 1850
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverwing View Post
In the general community of those who've made the decision to never have kids (and those of us who've always "known" we didn't want them), the term is childfree. Someone like yourself, still in the considering phase, would be childless, as are those who want kids but haven't had them yet

*snork* Having been around CF support groups for over 10 years, with the subject given a good sounding, I don't think that's true. In fact, if there's one person I always hated having for a supervisor, it was a woman who was a mother They brought their views on managing a department and people as if they were her home and children.

Yeahhhh, you'll hear that. I suggest seeking out some of the moderated CF groups. Childfree Community is one you can read without having to join.

Get a little older and you'll roll your eyes at the "selfish" epithet I just say "whatever" and get on with my life. We CFs have our own equal views on why we thinking parenting is selfish, an opinion that is just as vigorously rebutted by them.

As to an outward reason for becoming a childfree person - "the world is overpopulated" view is stated, but ultimately it's a decision you have to make for your own benefit. After all, as one well-noted CF has said, parents may say that their children will be the ones paying for our Social Security, but I've yet to hear a parent say "honey! the SS system is going to run out of money by 2040! we better go upstairs and do something about that!"

You'll find a clearer discussion on childfree views in a CF group, like the one to which I linked. You'll find more like-minded people there who've been through the same thought processes as yourself.

CF's? you made an abreviation for yourself?? How.......cute.

I totally agree to each his own. And I would never look at somone who didn't have or want kids as selfish or any form of bad person. However, the "CF's" with your attitude......very sad. You are the exact type of person that you are so adamently speaking down on. Because you had one supervisor who was a apparently not to your liking all of a sudden it's because she's a mom? Wow....scary. One could say the same exact thing about you. There is a huge difference in being mature and respectful about your decision and being....well, like you. good luck.
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Old 09-12-2008, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Midwest
1,167 posts, read 1,516,025 times
Reputation: 1507
I do not look down on anyone because of their personal decisions. If you do not want children or feel that you wouldn't enjoy parenting I applaud your decisions to not have them. There are many parents out there who may have been better off making the same decision! That said, here are a few things I have observed.

My cousin and her husband have decided not to have children. They have also secluded themselves from our entire family. I used to be pretty close with this cousin and I thought it would be a permanent thing, but once I had my son and got married she and her husband dissappeared from the family. I invite them to every event that I host, UFC parties, holiday gatherings, etc. None of which are child centered, but still they do not come. It is like they anticipate that people will look down on them for not having children, so they don't even give us a chance to accept them. I love my cousin and I completely stand by her decision not to have children. I think if she and her husband would at least give us a chance they would see that those of us who have children do not think that just because we do everyone else needs to as well.

I think that many who choose not to have children are automatically defensive and feel that they need to brow beat anyone who does have children. I personally think that each person should make that decision for themself and they should not make value judgements on each person who decides differently than they do.

I do not like people who feel that it has to be either or and that people who decide to be childfree cannot be friendly or associate with people who do have children. I find that a lot of childfree people look down on people with children and find them less intelligent.

And for the record, no one at my work, at home or anywhere else in my life has to pick up the slack for me taking care of my children. If I have to pick my son up from daycare early because he is sick I continue to do my own work. No one takes over for me when I am gone. It is all my work and no one else knows how to do it. Therefore, no person childless or otherwise has to pick up any slack for me at work. Also, all people have emergencies and have to leave work, whether it is parents, animals, other family members etc. It doesn't always have to be children.

So to sum it all up, I do not think any less of any person who does not have children, but I would appreciate if I didn't have to defend the fact that I have them. Why does there have to be a bitter rivalry?
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