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Some sage advice for the fellas here, from a (straight) dude who has numerous female friends: when she introduces you to her friends, especially her "best" friend, be nice/cool to them, or you can count it over.
I've been on the receiving end of this - where a girl I'd been dating introduced me to her friends, and then things ended because one of them didn't like me from the gate, or we just didn't have personalities that meshed well. However, I'm increasingly finding myself being that "best friend," and am rapidly coming to the conclusion that more often than not, impressing the friends or family of a girl is probably the most important step after a few successful dates to getting to a proper relationship.
I'll relate tonight's adventure as an example of how it goes down.
I have a friend whom I've known for about six years. We are extremely close, and we know eachother extremely well. She's weighed in on women I've dated, both in the positive and negative, and I've always listened to her advice; however, I don't necessarily always take it.
She, on the other hand, nearly always takes my advice. I've noticed that this seems to be a somewhat common though not universal discrepancy between the genders: if a guy is going out with a girl and his male friends don't necessarily like her, but he's into her and he seems happy, they'll most likely hold judgement and wish him well. If a girl is going out wih a guy and her girlfriends don't necessarily like him, but she's into him and she seems happy, there's a good chance that they'll do everything in their power to convince her that he's not worthy, a super-creep, a jerk, etc. It's probably some sort of gender-role dominance thing...
Anyways, she met a guy online a few weeks ago, and initially, described him as "too short," "not very attractive," "not too many similar interests," and that he had a certain intangible thing-about-him-that-didn't-seem-right. This friend really does try to see the best in people, so when he tried to kiss her and she told him that she didn't think it would work because they had various differences, and he spent days explaining how they actually had exactly the same interests and felt exactly the same way on absolutely everything that she had described to him, she decided that she'd "give him a chance" (I actually didn't know this and thought they were "just friends" until after everything had gone down tonight).
She convinced me to come over to dinner at his place, as he was throwing a sort of dinner party with some of his friends. Since at this point I figured they were friends, I didn't have any sort of guy-friend radar up when we walked in.
He answers the door, looks at me, and says "hey." We step in, my friend introduces me as her "best friend," and he again looks at me, and says, "hey." Then, he says to her, "Hey, ______, thanks for coming tonight," and gushes to her about how happy he is to see her, etc. After this, he turns and leads her into the apartment without another word to me. It's about another four or five minutes before he makes another single statement in my direction.
If I'm welcoming someone into my house, I make an effort to make them feel at home, especially if it's their first time there, and even moreso if it's someone dear to a girl I'm trying to impress. This guy has made it clear from the gate that he's got basically no interest in my presence; all of a sudden, I'm noticing that his is really short. He is really ugly. He's a serious D-bag, one of those smarmy, too-slick-for-his-own-good Hollywood sorts that make people hate the LA area. As an afterthought, he eventually introduces me to his roommates and friends.
He lists a few names and then makes some sort of smug wisecrack. One of his friends goes, "hey, there's gonna be a quiz; quick, what's his name?" and points to one of the other guys there. I half open my mouth to say something, and the friend goes, "WRONG!" and he throws a god damn gummy worm at me. Like we're in grade school again. It hits me in the chest. I watch it hit me and fall to the floor, and then give the guy the least-unpleasant incredulous look I possibly can. Realizing this wasn't a good idea, he comes over and goes to brush off my shirt, saying, "hey, I'm sorry." I brush his hand away and tell him that it's quite alright.
Now, you can tell a lot about someone by the company they keep, and this sent a very clear message: your friends suck about as much as you do.
The fact that when this happened, he just sort of went, "uh-huh-huh" and walked off to flirt with my friend again only drove the nail further into the coffin.
I made it clear after a half and hour or so that I wasn't enjoying myself and decided to ditch our plans for going to comedy improv later because I really don't like crappy company, but my friend convinced me to stay and didn't realize that I'd been treated in a completely dismissive and unwelcomed fashion as she'd been shmoozing with someone else.
The three of us went to improv, and by the end of it, the guy had realized that he had bombed the whole night with the way he'd treated me earlier, and went into damagecontrol mode by being extra-sweet to her. My friend realized that he'd done something to really **** me off at this point and started paying a bit more attention to me, which made him try to pay more attention to her. I got randomly picked to come up onstage, did awesome, and was invited to finish the night with them. At the end of it, my friend chose to ride home with me rather than him, where she asked what I thought of him and told me that she had actually "started dating him" a couple days prior.
I told her that he was an insecure, arrogant little fellow with absolutely no manners. I reminded her that she didn't actually find him attractive, that she had mentioned a few other guys in the theatre whom she thought were more attractive, and that this made it all pretty clear; she admitted that yes, she'd been telling herself that even though he wasn't attractive to her, that he was actually a really sweet guy. I then explained to her how he changed all of his interests and goals to coincide with hers after she told him what hers were, and reminded her that her initial impression of him was that they weren't compatible. Then, she realized that she, too, had been slagged by his friends previously and yeah, they didn't really have similar goals and whatnot.
By the end of the night, she was asking herself, "what was I thinking?" and had decided that she was going to text him and tell him that seriously, for reals, they can't date.
He put forth an admirable effort changing a girl's first impression of him, putting his best foot forward a bit late but getting somewhere. And then, he lost it all by being dismissive, and then a jerk, to the best friend.
The next time that you're dating a girl and a few dates in, she invites you to meet her friends, remind yourself: you've already created a good impression on her. For the most part, everyone's going to make an effort to impress the person they're trying to woo; now, it's your chance to impress the people close to her, show them how you're a really, genuinely good guy, and get them on your side. Be inclusive, be a good host or a courteous guest. Just whatever you do, do not **** off the best friend.
What if the woman's best friends are jerks? Can you assume its over then too? Sometimes, as a new person entering a relationship and meeting her best friends, if you see this described scenario play out, you should RUN! As much as you may be into her, there won't be a match ever. You'll never get over their jerkiness and they will always pick at you.
I've noticed that this seems to be a somewhat common though not universal discrepancy between the genders: if a guy is going out with a girl and his male friends don't necessarily like her, but he's into her and he seems happy, they'll most likely hold judgement and wish him well. If a girl is going out wih a guy and her girlfriends don't necessarily like him, but she's into him and she seems happy, there's a good chance that they'll do everything in their power to convince her that he's not worthy, a super-creep, a jerk, etc. It's probably some sort of gender-role dominance thing...
i agree with that premise.
the rest was TLDR. (edit: read the rest. good story. no further comment.)
Sounds like an unpleasant evening, and she may be better off without him.
I do agree with you that you can tell a lot about a person by the company they keep, whether it’s their best friend or their BF/GF.
However, your friend was not honest with you that she’d started dating this guy. She also invited you along with her, you weren’t invited by him, so that combination probably added to the uncomfortable dynamics of the evening.
Like it or not, not everyone is comfortable with opposite gender “best friends”. It’s not right or wrong, it just is. His being a d-bag doesn’t negate the fact that his date showed up with another guy, and he may not have known what to make of that. Doesn't excuse his behaviour AT ALL, but I know I wouldn’t be impressed if a guy I just started to date showed up with another girl to my place.
The way you wrote this post, it comes across, IMO, like your friend doesn’t make her own decisions and relies on your opinions as the truth, and that you seem to enjoy having control and influence over her choices. You don’t always need to save her from her choices. Sometimes people have to learn the hard way and come to realizations on their own in their own time, whether you, as a friend, like it or not.
Yup, I agree. I have totally done this, I was interested in a guy and my closest friend hated him. She thought he was too immature. Later, I thought....that was totally stupid, we had a good thing going, my friends would have liked him given time. Oh well.
You should consider expanding on your original post. You're about half way to a full fledged novel. I doubt a publisher would be interested in it, but you never know.
I've noticed that this seems to be a somewhat common though not universal discrepancy between the genders: if a guy is going out with a girl and his male friends don't necessarily like her, but he's into her and he seems happy, they'll most likely hold judgement and wish him well. If a girl is going out wih a guy and her girlfriends don't necessarily like him, but she's into him and she seems happy, there's a good chance that they'll do everything in their power to convince her that he's not worthy, a super-creep, a jerk, etc. It's probably some sort of gender-role dominance thing...
This is very true for my circle of friendship with my girls. I am a young woman (not a little girl) and only I will make that judgment and that call to end the relationship as I please. I'm willing to listen but it doesn't always mean that I'll take their advice. Sometimes friends (especially girls) need to step back and let it be. If they're stubborn, let them learn.
Be cool to the girlfriends friends.OP has had a close female friend for 6 years. This friend of his ALWAYS listens to his advice. Women have some sort of gender role dominance thing where they will do everything in their power to persuade the friend to break it off with the "bad" guy.
Female friend meets guy online. OP gets hit in the face with a gummy worm from female friends boyfriend. Then BOOM, The OP gets back at the guy by letting his female friend know that her new online boyfriend is a d-bag. The female friend listens and breaks up with said Online boyfriend.
OP: 1
D-Bag boyfriends: 0
Moral of the story. Impress your girlfriends friends. If not, they will talk **** about you and most likely be one reason for your break up.
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