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Old 04-23-2012, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
21,518 posts, read 22,785,000 times
Reputation: 45331

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
Interesting that during WWII when women stepped up to work in the factories, leaving their children unattended or with others, no one blinked and eye and yelled feminist conspiracy to subvert biology.
And aside from WWII and women in the upper classes, throughout history American women with families have always worked outside the home. Women worked on family farms, in family shops and businesses, in restaurants, as teachers, laundresses, seamstresses, factory workers, housekeepers, etc. And yet, civilization marches on.

 
Old 04-23-2012, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Middle America
35,827 posts, read 39,513,210 times
Reputation: 48653
Quote:
Originally Posted by findly185 View Post
Is this a daycare issue? Because I work with several women whose children stay with sisters, mothers, sister-in-laws etc. Is that acceptable because its not a "stranger" (which is going to happen regardless when they go to school anyways)or is that still not neutering maternal instincts because the mother herself is not with the child 24/7?
That's awesome, for people who have that luxury.

For me, I'm a between 500-1,000 miles from anyone in my family group who might perform such duties on my behalf, and even if I were closer, my sister, sisters-in-law, and my mother all work full-time themselves (as does my dad and both my brothers), and my grandma (all other grandparents are deceased) is too elderly and of too frail health to be charged with caretaking of infants and children. So if I had children, it would be either daycare or one parent staying home.
 
Old 04-23-2012, 01:41 PM
 
5,485 posts, read 6,090,835 times
Reputation: 5793
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheViking85 View Post
And what are those roles, who defines them and where do they come from? And again, how specifically is our civilization broken?

I'm a man, very comfortably so and my wife is most definitely a woman (a hot one at that ) but why should we let that define who does what in the relationship, when it works far better the way we do things now?

If/When we have kids, if we can afford to only have one income, and that is something we want, trust me, we'll both have part time jobs, as I don't see any reason why she should have any greater right to spend time with our children as they grow up.




A job most people manage just fine even if both parents work full time.
Of course any couple can and will do whatever works for them and I think thats great. Both husband and wife working is very much a norm today and Im peerfectly fine with that as well. The issue I have is that some tend to think that being a mother is a job. It isnt a job. It is who you are once you give birth. Nature made it so and there is nothing that can be done to change it. Womans role is to be that mother, nurture the children until they are ready to stand up on their own two feet. It isnt a job or a chore.
 
Old 04-23-2012, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Middle America
35,827 posts, read 39,513,210 times
Reputation: 48653
Quote:
Originally Posted by misiu007 View Post
Mostly western civilization. Its broken because people dont have any clue as to what their gender roles are. Men are feminine, women dont want to be women because its degrading to them. Its all types of screwed up in my opinion.
"Being a woman" isn't in any way degrading. You just seem to have a particularly narrow parameter of what you think the definition of "being a woman" is and should be.

Being told that it's for some reason not my choice, whether I prefer to get married, not get married, have a family or not, build a career or not, etc. is certainly ridiculous, though.
 
Old 04-23-2012, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
20,088 posts, read 20,576,914 times
Reputation: 20419
Quote:
Originally Posted by misiu007 View Post
Of course any couple can and will do whatever works for them and I think thats great. Both husband and wife working is very much a norm today and Im peerfectly fine with that as well. The issue I have is that some tend to think that being a mother is a job. It isnt a job. It is who you are once you give birth. Nature made it so and there is nothing that can be done to change it. Womans role is to be that mother, nurture the children until they are ready to stand up on their own two feet. It isnt a job or a chore.

Dont let the media get hold of that statement.
 
Old 04-23-2012, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
4,464 posts, read 9,658,212 times
Reputation: 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by misiu007 View Post
Of course any couple can and will do whatever works for them and I think thats great. Both husband and wife working is very much a norm today and Im peerfectly fine with that as well. The issue I have is that some tend to think that being a mother is a job. It isnt a job. It is who you are once you give birth. Nature made it so and there is nothing that can be done to change it. Womans role is to be that mother, nurture the children until they are ready to stand up on their own two feet. It isnt a job or a chore.
One on thing we agree: Being a mother is not a job, it's who you are, as a female, once you give birth to or adopt a child (or otherwise take on the parental role in that child's life).

But once that child is born, the male also becomes a father, with all the same responsibilities, to nurture, protect, teach and support the child, I cannot for the life of me understand why any male would not want to take part in their child's life and upbringing to the same level as their spouse.

I do not subscribe to the idea that the woman who carries the child should somehow have more love or more reason to take care of it than the other partner (be it a woman or a man... or two men for that matter), each parent, in the cases where two is present, share the same responsibility and should have the same interest in seeing the child have a good upbringing.

If I impregnate a female, the result is just as much my responsibility as the females.
 
Old 04-23-2012, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Middle America
35,827 posts, read 39,513,210 times
Reputation: 48653
I can get behind the "parenting is a role, not a job" rhetoric (note, I said "parenting." Not "being a mother." The role of parenting for the father had been noticeably absent from this discussion, far as I can tell).

But it being a "role," versus a "job" doesn't change the fact that, yes, it is, in fact, hard work.
 
Old 04-23-2012, 01:59 PM
 
460 posts, read 550,498 times
Reputation: 741
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheViking85 View Post
And what are those roles, who defines them and where do they come from? And again, how specifically is our civilization broken?

I'm a man, very comfortably so and my wife is most definitely a woman (a hot one at that ) but why should we let that define who does what in the relationship, when it works far better the way we do things now?

If/When we have kids, if we can afford to only have one income, and that is something we want, trust me, we'll both have part time jobs, as I don't see any reason why she should have any greater right to spend time with our children as they grow up.




A job most people manage just fine even if both parents work full time.
That is a warped way of thinking IMO. Why does it have to be tit for tat? You're a team working together, not competitors trying to get the top spot. My husband works and I only work a few hours a week. I don't have the "right to spend more time" with our children. Instead, it just makes more sense for him to make the money and carry the health insurance since he has more earning potential. Besides, he's not cut out to be an at-home parent. He'd go crazy. So instead, I stay home because that's what WE feel is best for our family. If you think it's best for you both to work. Great! But don't do it just so your wife doesn't "get" to spend more time with the children. That's twisted logic. It'd be equally twisted if your wife said that of you just to clarify (in case someone thinks this is a woman vs. men issue).
 
Old 04-23-2012, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
20,088 posts, read 20,576,914 times
Reputation: 20419
Quote:
Originally Posted by southshorelady View Post
That is a warped way of thinking IMO. Why does it have to be tit for tat? You're a team working together, not competitors trying to get the top spot. My husband works and I only work a few hours a week. I don't have the "right to spend more time" with our children. Instead, it just makes more sense for him to make the money and carry the health insurance since he has more earning potential. Besides, he's not cut out to be an at-home parent. He'd go crazy. So instead, I stay home because that's what WE feel is best for our family. If you think it's best for you both to work. Great! But don't do it just so your wife doesn't "get" to spend more time with the children. That's twisted logic. It'd be equally twisted if your wife said that of you just to clarify (in case someone thinks this is a woman vs. men issue).
I totally get what he is saying. Why should a mother be the default to stay home and take care of the kids. Fathers do get the shaft as far as having equal quality time with their kids. And some fathers want that. Its assumed the one with the higher income works while the lower income stays home. Instead of one working and one staying home why not both work part time leaving both equal time to spend parenting if its financially doable. My father worked a second part time job, and my brother is doing that now. They both missed out on spending time with their children.
 
Old 04-23-2012, 02:08 PM
 
460 posts, read 550,498 times
Reputation: 741
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheViking85 View Post
One on thing we agree: Being a mother is not a job, it's who you are, as a female, once you give birth to or adopt a child (or otherwise take on the parental role in that child's life).

But once that child is born, the male also becomes a father, with all the same responsibilities, to nurture, protect, teach and support the child, I cannot for the life of me understand why any male would not want to take part in their child's life and upbringing to the same level as their spouse.

I do not subscribe to the idea that the woman who carries the child should somehow have more love or more reason to take care of it than the other partner (be it a woman or a man... or two men for that matter), each parent, in the cases where two is present, share the same responsibility and should have the same interest in seeing the child have a good upbringing.

If I impregnate a female, the result is just as much my responsibility as the females.
I contest that the first year of life after the baby is born is more like a continuation of the development of the fetus in the womb. The baby, according to biology, is meant to breast feed. There are a multitude of other baby/mother connections that continue to intermingle after the infant is born. So yes, in my opinion, a baby is supposed to be with its mother during the first year of life. That doesn't diminish the role of father. The father is equally important. I wholly support the role of fathers and I think society is too quick to cast aside the worth of a father. However, that role is different from that of a mother. My husband does equally share in the responsibility of raising our children. However, we have chosen to split that responsibility into shares that we don't get an equal piece of. I spend more time with the children. He contributes the good majority of the money. We share responsibilities EQUALLY on the weekend and at night. His role is not diminished because he spends less time with them. His children love and adore their father. Your split down the middle, tit for tat perspective is skewed in my opinion.
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