Where are the Asian men and Black women couples? (wife, lesbian, attracted)

[foma]

Originally Posted by songinthewind7

As far as what Foma said about how she takes offense to it, I respect those feelings; but I don't know until I'm told. I didn't know Oriental was such a bad word until I read this thread. But what is bad to her, may not be bad to somebody else.

With all do respect, no, you don't care about "my feelings" or else you wouldn't have said:

Some of us are so sick of those being politically correct.
If all races would call themselves what they are and stop changing what they want to be called

I didnt' choose to be called "oriental". It is an outdated term whites referred to the Chinese when they immigrated here 100+ years ago to work the mines. The Chinese men were viewed as savages while the women were viewed as sexual objects, always being viewed as sub-human by whites.

I was called a mic because of my Irish heritage. Nobody took offense to anything.

I don't know how old you are and I'm sure at one point in time, the term "mic" might have been acceptable but say that to any Irish nowadays, and I gaurantee you it will not be overlooked, my husband included.

The middle aged to older seem to be less politically correct whereas the younger tend to be more politically correct and get there feelings hurt easily.

My grandmother-in-law refers to Asians as orientals and I don't say a word. I respect her more than I care to correct her. Likewise, if someone referred to my Mom as "oriental", I'm sure she wouldn't think any of it b'c she doesn't know any better, but I do. Being first generation, she's never experienced racism being wrapped in her little cocoon. So you're right, the older folks probably are less politically correct but it still doesn't make calling Asians orientals today right.

My feelings were never hurt to begin with when the word oriental was used in this post. I was merely informing the poster of it's outdated and offensive connotation. Like you said yourself: you don't know until you're told. I was telling you, and whoever else read the post. The word should not be used to refer to Asians, ESPECIALLY since not all Asians are from the Orient, just as not all Latinos are Mexican. It's not a matter of caring how you feel, but to respect people's heritages. One just sounds ignorant when "jumbling" up races, cultures, nationalities and so on and soforth.

I'll call someone anything they want to be called but they need to tell me what they want to be called and not get upset when called something they don't want to be called.

If I ever sounded "upset", I wasn't but I am telling you now calling the wrong Asians "oriental" may get you in the hot seat. You may not be Imus, but use the term at a job and you could be called in to your boss's office for "sensitivity training". I couldn't care less what you used to call Asians but I do feel it is my duty to educate people of the word's negative impact on the Asian population.

Finally, just a side note: I am a strong proponent of free speech. People should say what they want to say but there is a cost to what comes out of your mouth.

Dullnboring - I enjoyed reading your post. I couldn't have said it better myself. In fact, I know I couldn't have so that's why I refrained from responding. It's hard to explain some things to people without getting emotional about it. You were both eloquent and objective and a well deserved rep point (but I have to wait to give you another point).

[divinemom]

Originally Posted by dullnboring

I agree that they mean the same thing from a definition standpoint but I disagree that they would mean the same thing to the person that they were referring to. Words carry emotion. Try calling someone "plump". Then try "large". Then "overweight". Then call them a "tub of lard". All mean the same thing, but will elicit different reactions.

I guess I just don't see what is so confusing about this. Things change over time. Words die. Talkies, commode, etc. These ethnic terms have changed maybe a whopping three or four times over the past century. I just don't see it as being difficult to keep up with. Some names were "given" to certain groups by the racist white establishment of the time, and in an effort to start anew, many times these terms were now denounced by the group due to the feelings they brought up. I don't see why white people have such a hard time grasping that and understanding that maybe these groups want to come up with a self-identifying term on their own terms. I just don't think people have any business deciding what a separate group of people should or should not be called. If they want to be called one thing, who are we to tell them "no"?

For the record though, as far as Latino vs. Hispanic vs. Mexican vs. Chicano, Mexican is a nationality. All Mexicans are Latinos but not all Latinos are Mexican. Latinos can be Costa Rican, Dominican, Chilean, etc.; all very different cultures. It would be like someone referring to an American as a Canadian or an Australian and not expecting to be corrected by the American. The term "Hispanic" is a loose association largely drawn up by the U.S. government to link all the Spanish-speaking people together. Some "Hispanics" resented the term and created the term Latino, which excludes those people from Spain, as they felt it more honored their Latin American roots which oftentimes are mixed with indigenous and African ancestry, as opposed to Hispanic which they felt was very Eurocentric. I personally have never encountered someone offended by the terms Latino or Hispanic and use the two interchangeably, although there is allegedly a geographic disparity where Latino is a more popular term out West than in the East. Latino is in general a safe term.

I agree with you. Individuals have different levels of sensitivity and education. I have a Vietnamese friend who calls himself a certain Vietnamese-specific slur. He's not remotely sensitive to racial issues. When I was in college, I became good friends with the people in my study group, a group of seven people which included one black guy. One day we decided to come up with nicknames for one another. He told us to refer to him as "Token" from now on. Within the confines of the relationship those of us within the group had established, that was an acceptable term, but for an outsider to refer to him as such, it would've been seen differently by both him and those of us on the inner circle so to speak. It's something that you can gauge on a case by case basis, especially when you get to know an individual more on a personal level, but I do feel that in terms of talking about groups as a whole, or in talking about someone you don't know, people can afford to "play it safe". In other words, just because someone has an irreverent, edgy and button-pushing black friend who refers to himself as the N-word and permits his buddies to as well, does not mean that it suddenly makes it okay for him to refer to all black people as such.

I really don't think most minorities make an issue out of it, unless the term is extremely offensive (like the N-word). I think if anything, it tends to be white people who make an issue out of it and minorities tend to be more than patient enough in explaining themselves and why certain things are offensive. A lot of white people seem to give off this vibe that it is just such a chore to actually refer to someone by a non-offensive term. I think that the term "politically correct" has been so vilified that whenever any minority dares to bring up anything in regards to racial sensitivity, they are immediately treated with an eyeroll, and a "get over it" mentality by some white people who think it is PC run amok, even if white person was being extremely ignorant and the non-white person was very respectful and basic in their request. In this very thread, foma just simply stated that the term "Oriental" is incorrect in reference to people, and that's all she said on the matter. I don't think she was making an issue out of it but was simply imparting knowledge. A lot of people simply don't realize the nuances of the word. She didn't go out of her way and call those who used it racist or blow her top. She just stated that the term is basically archaic and that many people do find it offensive.

Since you brought up the issue of about what to name groups of people and then you referred to "white" people, I am curious - who are the "white people"?

[songinthewind7]

Originally Posted by foma

With all do respect, no, you don't care about "my feelings" or else you wouldn't have said:



I didnt' choose to be called "oriental". It is an outdated term whites referred to the Chinese when they immigrated here 100+ years ago to work the mines. The Chinese men were viewed as savages while the women were viewed as sexual objects, always being viewed as sub-human by whites.



I don't know how old you are and I'm sure at one point in time, the term "mic" might have been acceptable but say that to any Irish nowadays, and I gaurantee you it will not be overlooked, my husband included.




My grandmother-in-law refers to Asians as orientals and I don't say a word. I respect her more than I care to correct her. Likewise, if someone referred to my Mom as "oriental", I'm sure she wouldn't think any of it b'c she doesn't know any better, but I do. Being first generation, she's never experienced racism being wrapped in her little cocoon. So you're right, the older folks probably are less politically correct but it still doesn't make calling Asians orientals today right.

My feelings were never hurt to begin with when the word oriental was used in this post. I was merely informing the poster of it's outdated and offensive connotation. Like you said yourself: you don't know until you're told. I was telling you, and whoever else read the post. The word should not be used to refer to Asians, ESPECIALLY since not all Asians are from the Orient, just as not all Latinos are Mexican. It's not a matter of caring how you feel, but to respect people's heritages. One just sounds ignorant when "jumbling" up races, cultures, nationalities and so on and soforth.



If I ever sounded "upset", I wasn't but I am telling you now calling the wrong Asians "oriental" may get you in the hot seat. You may not be Imus, but use the term at a job and you could be called in to your boss's office for "sensitivity training". I couldn't care less what you used to call Asians but I do feel it is my duty to educate people of the word's negative impact on the Asian population.

Finally, just a side note: I am a strong proponent of free speech. People should say what they want to say but there is a cost to what comes out of your mouth.

Dullnboring - I enjoyed reading your post. I couldn't have said it better myself. In fact, I know I couldn't have so that's why I refrained from responding. It's hard to explain some things to people without getting emotional about it. You were both eloquent and objective and a well deserved rep point (but I have to wait to give you another point).

Okay, you are young.
I'm in my late 40's and this is the first time I've heard or read anything about the word Oriental being a bad word and since I know of people that are different races and cultures, including Asian, you seem to be the only one that thinks this way so I'm assuming it's a new age thing. If it's such a bad word, why do your family members accept it? Are you saying they are stupid and don't know any better just because they are being called what they are used to being called.
Like I said in my other post, I think it also depends on your age and where you live. I think most Irish and most others see the humor in being called a slang name. But again, that's slang and some people take offense to that but I never thought the word oriental was slang or offensive until you came along and said it. Sorry I offended you, if I did, but as you go through life, there are worse things to be called.
I'm not being racist and that's a name I'm sick of hearing all the time. I can educate people that I don't like being called a ***** but that's not going to stop some who have thought that for a long time and don't see the purpose of changing.
Again, I'm sorry if your feelings are hurt or you're offended but you seem to be the only one I know of that is. You allow your family to get by with being called Orientals and that's alright with you but you feel the need to educate CD?

[songinthewind7]

It all depends on the context, environment and the individual. Within your community, your family and friends and neighborhood, you established at an early age that ethnic slurs meant no harm and could be tossed around freely without anyone taking offense. If that worked for everyone, then so be it. However, if you were to go to the St. Patrick's Day Parade in New York and start calling everyone mics, you wouldn't get such a rosy reception to say the least.

Quote:

This wasn't at an early age that we all chose to call ourselves by slang terms. It's been within the past few years and it still goes on. I have relatives in Ohio and nothings changed. I can't speak for the younger crowd though. I'm speaking 40 and above.
I wouldn't go to NY and start calling everyone mics. That's not my thing. I'm talking about Cleveland Ohio; although, I'm sure it goes on in NY or in a lot of other places also.
As you get older, you will be wiser and learn to lighten up.

[foma]

This is obviosuly off-topic and you seem to be chasing your own tail. To say anything offensive about my family is drawing the line so I will leave this topic to its own demise. Your ignorance and inability to see from another's perspective is neither worth my time nor words. Google "oriental" and you will see that it is not just me who thinks this term offensive and outdated.

[dullnboring]

Originally Posted by divinemom

Since you brought up the issue of about what to name groups of people and then you referred to "white" people, I am curious - who are the "white people"?

White people are those descended from Europe, and the areas west of the Caucasus. As far as within my post when I'm referencing "white people", I'm obviously not referring to all white people, but a specific subset of white people who seem to be willing to change with the times in other regards, but who for some reason, generally roll their eyes at being remotely sensitive or accomodating to minorities because they view it as them asking for special treatment or being whiny or playing the race card, basically blaming the minority thinking it must be their problem, rather than turning an introspective lens on themselves.

Originally Posted by songinthewind7

This wasn't at an early age that we all chose to call ourselves by slang terms. It's been within the past few years and it still goes on. I have relatives in Ohio and nothings changed. I can't speak for the younger crowd though. I'm speaking 40 and above.
I wouldn't go to NY and start calling everyone mics. That's not my thing. I'm talking about Cleveland Ohio; although, I'm sure it goes on in NY or in a lot of other places also.

Here's what it boils down to. You stated that no one can get mad at you if you use a word you didn't realize was offensive, and that they should simply tell you that is the case and you will respect them. It doesn't seem to me from the exchange that has been going on in this thread that this is going to be something that you're trying to live up to. Here we have foma who explained very nicely that the term was offensive, yet rather than gracefully saying "whoops, sorry, I didn't know it was offensive" as you seemed to indicate you would, you protest and show such resistance and seem to be holding steadfast to the word, refusing to give the multitude of posts expressing it's outdated and offensive nature any credence whatsoever and sticking with your own views.

This is really such a basic concept. Ignore the racial compenent for one second. If someone asks you not to call them something, you don't call them it. Plain and simple. We were taught this in Kindergarten. I don't get why this is so difficult to understand. As I said before, it all boils down to respect and common courtesy. You now know that the word Oriental is not a correct word. If you choose to ignore this or do no further research on this, or continue to use the word now in reference to other Asians after having been told that it's best not done, it will show that you do not respect the opinions of others and their feelings as much as you claim to.

[nl2134]

Originally Posted by songinthewind7

Are you saying they are stupid and don't know any better just because they are being called what they are used to being called.

First of all, I think that was totally uncalled for, calling his elders stupid. While it isn't blatantly offensive, it is quite ignorant, and as I mentioned, uncalled for. You seem to want to apologize but can't squeeze it out, and then go on the offensive which makes it even more offensive, with quotes like that. If you read foma's post, you would see the answer was already posted:

Originally Posted by foma

My grandmother-in-law refers to Asians as orientals and I don't say a word. I respect her more than I care to correct her. Likewise, if someone referred to my Mom as "oriental", I'm sure she wouldn't think any of it b'c she doesn't know any better, but I do. Being first generation, she's never experienced racism being wrapped in her little cocoon. So you're right, the older folks probably are less politically correct but it still doesn't make calling Asians orientals today right.

Foma, you did a great job responding clearly, and trying to make others understand. If others can't accept it, well, that's their loss.

[songinthewind7]

Originally Posted by foma

This is obviosuly off-topic and you seem to be chasing your own tail. To say anything offensive about my family is drawing the line so I will leave this topic to its own demise. Your ignorance and inability to see from another's perspective is neither worth my time nor words. Google "oriental" and you will see that it is not just me who thinks this term offensive and outdated.

You have chosen to become off topic also. I wasn't saying anything offensive about your family and you're getting all bent out of shape that I don't agree with you. If you choose to be called Asian, then be called Asian. Others I know don't seem to be making an issue of it, including your family. It's your age and ignorance that makes you whiney and so I can overlook this.

[songinthewind7]

Originally Posted by dullnboring

White people are those descended from Europe, and the areas west of the Caucasus. As far as within my post when I'm referencing "white people", I'm obviously not referring to all white people, but a specific subset of white people who seem to be willing to change with the times in other regards, but who for some reason, generally roll their eyes at being remotely sensitive or accomodating to minorities because they view it as them asking for special treatment or being whiny or playing the race card, basically blaming the minority thinking it must be their problem, rather than turning an introspective lens on themselves.

Here's what it boils down to. You stated that no one can get mad at you if you use a word you didn't realize was offensive, and that they should simply tell you that is the case and you will respect them. It doesn't seem to me from the exchange that has been going on in this thread that this is going to be something that you're trying to live up to. Here we have foma who explained very nicely that the term was offensive, yet rather than gracefully saying "whoops, sorry, I didn't know it was offensive" as you seemed to indicate you would, you protest and show such resistance and seem to be holding steadfast to the word, refusing to give the multitude of posts expressing it's outdated and offensive nature any credence whatsoever and sticking with your own views.

This is really such a basic concept. Ignore the racial compenent for one second. If someone asks you not to call them something, you don't call them it. Plain and simple. We were taught this in Kindergarten. I don't get why this is so difficult to understand. As I said before, it all boils down to respect and common courtesy. You now know that the word Oriental is not a correct word. If you choose to ignore this or do no further research on this, or continue to use the word now in reference to other Asians after having been told that it's best not done, it will show that you do not respect the opinions of others and their feelings as much as you claim to.

DullandBoring,
Go back and read my post. I did apologize to Foma for hurting her feelings, but that doesn't mean I'm going to call it the word of god because of what she said. I'm not into offending people on purpose and I did apologize for that and I learned that Foma and others on here like to be called Asians. It's also yours and Fomas opinion that oriental is racist and that's okay. I'm simply stating that not every Asian feels this way. I can see that both of you are young and have a lot to learn that others are not going to fall at your grace because you choose to make a statement on something that has nothing whatsoever to do with the posters question.

[MonaLisaVito]

It's all Greek to me Foma, All Greek!!