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But here's the thing. Marriage is hard work. It requires building a life together. It is the tying of your romantic and financial futures together. And anybody who subscribes to the infantile claptrap of "Love conquers all" has just watched way too many romantic comedies. In truth, the life you build together is the stuff real love is made of.
Heck, just look around the CD Relationship forums. How many threads have been started with the basic complaint of, "You know, I was mad about the guy at the beginning. But he just sits around all day in his boxers playing World Of Warcraft while I'm going to work, paying the bills, etc. etc." I've seen dozens and dozens like that. Because after the initial rush of satisfied hormonal urges, there remains work to be done. And if one partner is doing the lion's share of the work, dissatisfaction is bound to result.
What's more, most middle-class couples in this country pretty much live on the knife's edge at all time. Most don't have three month's savings in the bank, instead living from paycheck to paycheck. So a person who just doesn't want to put that much into his ability to earn money is guaranteeing a life of insecurity for a woman and their children. Go a few years of living hand-to-mouth, and all that rainbow and butterfly stuff you read about in the fairy tales becomes nothing more than a fraud.
Now, that's not to say that a guy needs to put in a minimum of 50 hours a week at the office. It's certainly not to say that one has to be an attorney or some other professional making the big coin. What it means instead, is that the economic life of the relationship should be reasonably dependable and certainly above subsistence level, providing a stable foundation on which the rest of their life together will flourish. Relationships, just like people, are beholden to Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Until you have taken care of the basic needs of food, shelter, and security, it's very hard to move on to the luxuries of self-esteem and self-actualization.
I really wish I could rep you again, not just for this post, but your others afterward as well.
It seems like some people are confusing "ambition" with some sort of insatiable greed that leads someone to bulldoze over everyone in his path in the single-minded pursuit of more, more, more. That's not how I see it. It's someone who is willing to put in the effort in order to have the type of life that s/he wants. I manage to work full time, keep the place clean, cook, and still have the time to pursue hobbies. It's a matter of, like you said, balance.
People use phrases such as "Money can't buy happiness", I think, to justify why they aren't where they want to be in life. True, maybe money doesn't buy happiness, but last I checked, the electric company doesn't give a crap how happy I am as long as I pay the bill. I don't know why the mention of finance seems verboten, but the truth is, life in this society costs money. And lack of it is a huge stress for many, many people. What able-bodied person wouldn't want to eliminate as much of that stress as possible? I'm not just talking about the size of the paycheck, here; I am also talking about the discipline to save and invest, and being resourceful in other ways, for example, having the skill to fix things.
If someone wants to live hand-to-mouth, and it affects no one but himself, fine. Here, though, like you said, we're talking about ambition in the context of a relationship, which means that it does affect others. Add children to the mix and - well, it just blows my mind when people with little ambition talk about wanting kids, but I know people just like this. There's a huge chasm between what these people want in life, and reality.
When you have passion in life and desire to achieve careers related to those passions you gain the respect of others but most importantly you feel better about yourself. It's a win win situation.
"Imperfections" seems to be your euphemism for 1) Dull as a butter knife, 2) Unkempt, 3) Dresses as if the clothes were tossed on him with a pitchfork, 4) Bad combover, or 5) Physique like the Pillsbury Doughboy.
Decent and hardworking doesn't mean you have to have any of these things. The problem is that guys who complain about being "decent and hardworking" are typically too lazy to look in the mirror and ask, "Would I date me?"
It's kind of like the tedious, "Why do women like bad boys instead of liking ME?" whine that goes on all the time. Women don't like bad boys per se. They just like men who like their lives. And men who complain about it are typically men who are dull beyond all human reason.
As attractive as "decent and hardworking" is to reasonable,
decent women,
"decent and hardworking" with a side of VICTIM doesn't cut it, because women don't associate masculinity with victimhood. Either as expressed by the individual in his approach or presentation, or perceived by those he would approach.
Very true. Most of the time ambitious people tend to date other ambitious people. Likes with likes.
What a load of horse CRAP! Women don't have to have ambition at all to date ambitious men!!! What effing world are you living in? All a woman has to do nowadays to snag an "ambitious" man is look good. an 8,9,10 on the looks scale can pretty much snag any damn guy they want in society. They don't have to do jack diddly except sit there and look pretty.
And half the women out there have no 'fing clue what "ambition" really is!!! To most women "ambition" is all about image and the size of the guy's paycheck and what kind of lifestyle he can afford them. For women ambition = to what extent they can be taken care of. Most women could care less if a guy is ambitious about being the next Bernie Madoff or a lifeguard. They get wet at the sight of dollar signs and granite countertops.
Ladies, how important is it that a man you're interested in has ambition? What would you define as ambition? I'm currently in a bit of a dead-end job but am finding it difficult to get my butt moving to graduate school & it's affecting my self-esteem a bit, I think. It makes me feel like "Why would a girl want to date me when I'm making little money & not using it for graduate school"?
When a lady is looking for her special "guy" one of the required qualities is that he be ambitious. Just the fact you do have a job and you are working is a plus. No where does it say the second you graduate college that you have to go to graduate school. Work, catch your breath and figure out what direction you want to go in. Don't let anything or anyone affect your self esteem. Going on to further your education is a good thing but it doesn't determine who you are as a person. Girls as a rule, don't look so much at the monetary value of your job as they do the fact that you are working to begin with.
Times are tough. There are so many younger people out there not working right now so feel blessed that you do have a job; such as it is.
Work on getting that self-esteem above sub-par and the rest will fall into place. Taking some time off between schooling is perfectly ok and should a great job come along and graduate school doesn't happen, that's ok too.
Me? I am 64 years old, raised my son alone and sent him to college by working two jobs. His Dad never helped us. My son went to school for Architecture and is presently a project manager, a step down from his ambitions but he is happy, married and has a great wife, home..all of it! Good Luck.
What a load of horse CRAP! Women don't have to have ambition at all to date ambitious men!!! What effing world are you living in? All a woman has to do nowadays to snag an "ambitious" man is look good. an 8,9,10 on the looks scale can pretty much snag any damn guy they want in society. They don't have to do jack diddly except sit there and look pretty.
And half the women out there have no 'fing clue what "ambition" really is!!! To most women "ambition" is all about image and the size of the guy's paycheck and what kind of lifestyle he can afford them. For women ambition = to what extent they can be taken care of. Most women could care less if a guy is ambitious about being the next Bernie Madoff or a lifeguard. They get wet at the sight of dollar signs and granite countertops.
I'm sorry this is news to you. Just check out census. People of similar education, income, and culture tend to marry. My own experience speaks to this. All of my colleagues are married to other college educated professionals and a good lot of them are even in the same field. That the only women who spend time with you are the types who aren't going anywhere, well, that's ultimately a reflection on you.
All a woman has to do nowadays to snag an "ambitious" man is look good. an 8,9,10 on the looks scale can pretty much snag any damn guy they want in society. They don't have to do jack diddly except sit there and look pretty.
His comment is so far off. I've known many a 9 or 10 in looks who are so screwed in the head or have zero personality and have trouble in relationships. Good looks open the door or get you laid but any relationship beyond that requires much more depth and quality in a person. Some of the worst sex I've ever had was from a few 9 or 10's.
[LEFT]
This is basically how women think........very true and I pass this out to ALL of my single guy friends who are looking for wmoen or otherwise dating.......
Women are not actually attracted to men. There is a vague idea of what a man is physically, and some are better than others aesthetically speaking, but the purely physical appearance of a man is almost inconsequential unless he is horribly ugly or outrageously attractive. Women are attracted to status, money, how much a man smiles and laughs, how many friends and resources a man has, how full a man's life is--how many "cool," "exciting" and prestigious things he is doing or connected to. They are interested in how other people view him--how many people want to be around him, how other people interact with him and whether their interactions convey that he is special and amazing. They want him to be extremely outgoing and aggressive, they want him to demonstrate his status over other people by dominating them in various non-violent ways. A woman's attraction to a man is a function of her jealousy at the thought of another woman having that man. She doesn't care who he actually is or EXACTLY what he looks like physically, she only cares about the VALUE of the life he has constructed around himself. A woman basically is a greedy materialistic prostitute. Although that sounds vulgar, it's true. She trades her physical self to buy into the success a man has created for himself. As a man, I fall in love with how a woman is physically. I fall in love with simple parts of a woman. Like the way her hair falls around her face, the line of her neck, her shoulders. They way her ears might peek from her hair. Her eyelashes. The size and shape of her hands, her fingernails. The way she walks, the way she looks when she is tired or annoyed, the sound she makes when she sneezes, coughs, or cries. The way she sits in a chair. The way she breathes while experiencing different emotions. The way her lips move. A million little things. Sure, a huge part of my attraction is mental, but the powerful seed of love that builds within me and crystallizes is based greatly on visual things that set off torrents of emotion and need. It seems to me that women almost cannot think for themselves. Their estimates of worth are based on other peoples' estimates of worth. They don't really find an object beautiful on their own. The object becomes beautiful when other people let her know that it is beautiful. I'm completely unable to reconcile the differences between men and women. It seems like success with women is equal to spending half of your life working to create a giant illusion, something vastly tiring and annoying, while sacrificing your own true self and your own interests. We construct our lives around nest-building. We're like male birds building nests and showing them off to attract mates. It's pathetic. Everything we do is to get women. It is a ****ing **** deal. Someone needs to invent a drug which has no hormonal imbalance side-effects but is able to erase a man's sex drive and attraction to women. It would increase productivity rates to incredible heights. I'd be free and happy. I'd feel complete. I'd be able to concentrate on my biochemistry studying.[/LEFT]
[SIZE=1][SIZE=1][LEFT][/SIZE][/SIZE] [/LEFT]
Who wrote that socalcruiser?
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