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Funny thing is, I agree with nearly every post on this thread.
There are lots of complex reasons why people act like they do and make the choices they make. Good grief, there are probably complex reasons why each of us choose which brand of coffee we prefer and whether or not we use creamer in that coffee (this is no lie - my dad actually would SHAME anyone who wanted to add cream or sugar to a cup of perfectly good black coffee!).
But the bottom line is - most people know deep inside whether something is right or wrong. Take, for instance, the receptionist. She KNOWS she is not supposed to be late for work habitually. If she thought it was actually OK, she wouldn't make up lies about wrecks or mini-emergencies to cover for being late. She KNOWS that she needs to get up earlier since she lives further away, and yet every day of her life she chooses NOT to get up in time to give her employer the courtesy and professionalism of being, simply, ON TIME for work.
Frankly, it's not her manager's job to psychoanalyze why she can't get the most basic tenet of the job down pat. Sure, it may be helpful if her manager calls her in and says, "I notice you've been late three times this week - in fact, I notice that you've been habitually late since you moved. I believe you can do better than this. Tell me what you plan to do to improve this aspect of your performance." But after that - I'd be writing her up and eventually she would fire herself or save her job and get to work on time.
Sure, people we manage need to know we believe in their ability to improve themselves - but then they have to, well, IMPROVE THEMSELVES. Regardless of their past, if they want a better future, they have to be honest and introspective with themselves.
When my ex husband cheated on me, sure it was his fault - no one forced him to do it. But I also had to face the fact that my ongoing illness and steroid treatments (resulting in major surgery which did correct the issue) had created a weight gain of fifty pounds. This struggle, and subsequent depression on my part, did not help our marriage. Could my teenagers and husband have been more understanding and empathetic? YES. But they weren't - and I gained fifty pounds and was a miserable, unhappy, sick woman. By the time my illness was addressed and treated, and I began losing the weight, the damage had been done. THEN I had the trauma of divorce, wild ass kids, financial repair, etc.
I didn't want to be alone for the rest of my life, but I knew I had to improve MYSELF and my relationship with my kids before I could even consider involving another person in my "beautiful mess." It was hard to be brutally honest with myself but I was. I am glad I took the time and energy required to get my head on straight and my life in order, because it was time and effort well spent.
By the way, I didn't go to any counselor or therapist. Nope. This may sound trite, but I read Dr Phil, Dave Ramsey, listened to Oprah, got involved with my church, and read "He's Just Not That Into You" and APPLIED THE PRINCIPLES to my life.
Do the right thing. Treat others the way you want to be treated. Seek first to understand before you pop off at the mouth or do something rash. Gather information before acting. Don't spend money you don't have. Put forth your best effort. Every day is a new day and holds new opportunities.
These concepts really aren't that hard to understand, but doing the right thing is usually the harder of two choices - only on the FRONT end. It makes life a lot easier on the back end.
But if we never accept the consequences of our actions, we never learn the lesson.
when I saw the title I thought it was directed at one particular poster who keeps perpetuating drama around her, yet cannot understand why its there....names omitted
A different thread on this forum reminded me of this question. These are people who always have money trouble, job trouble, romance trouble, etc., as if their lives are an ongoing soap opera. And it's NEVER THEIR FAULT.
I had an employee named Ella. I hired her to be the receptionist. Her major job requirement, aside from simple competence? Be at the office at 8:00 a.m. to answer the phone. And because she lived six blocks from the office, that was no problem.
So, the first month was groovy. No problem. Then she meets a guy. Two weeks later, she's moving in with the guy. The problem? His house is twenty miles down the interstate. So she mentions this to me, and then says, "I might be late every once in a while." To that, I say, "Ella, I don't mind the occasional problem, but don't make a habit of it." Well, she starts getting there 10, 15, 20 minutes late every freaking day. Like it never occurs to her to get out of bed earlier. But every day she's late because of a wreck or slow traffic because this drama was NOT HER FAULT.
Her starting salary? Perfectly adequate. But once she moved twenty miles away, she started burning up more gas. And then she and the boyfriend got two dogs, which needed vets, shots, food, you name it. And, suddenly, I wasn't paying her enough. So it wasn't that she hadn't budgeted. This drama was NOT HER FAULT.
And then the boyfriend would call her at the office and they would have arguments, and she would be on the phone for thirty or forty minutes while calls were coming in. Now she could have hung up the phone on him at any time, but this drama was NOT HER FAULT.
And her mother owned a huge parcel of land. But because of the woman's deteriorating health, Ella had power of attorney. So when her aunts and uncles were pressuring her to sell the land to them for a song, she came to me for advice. Don't do it, I advised her. And a real estate attorney who I recommended gave her the same advice. But she does it anyway. And then complains about how her aunts and uncles ripped her off. Because this drama was NOT HER FAULT.
And then her house burns down. And she and her boyfriend don't have fire insurance. But she swears she mailed the check, even though there's no record of payment. So this drama was NOT HER FAULT.
And every damned day, it was something new. And this drama WAS NEVER HER FAULT.
Here's my question. Why? These are otherwise intelligent people. Why can't people step back from their lives and make intelligent choices? Help me understand this.
They are not "otherwise intelligent people". They are people with a victim mentality who will never get anywhere in life. Do you think this started from the day you hired her? Hardly, my guess is that this is what has been going her entire life.
I would definitely get rid of her and find someone who can do the job and who is reliable. There is no reason for you to have to put up with this.
I disagree. I think there is an absolute difference between intelligence and wisdom. I know plenty of people who are awfully smart with whom I wouldn't entrust a box of kitchen matches.
You know, I see your point...I guess what we are talking about is "common sense", and so many people lack that, regardless of how smart they are.
When and if I'm able, I'd like to start an educational course for all young people in about 9th or 10th grade and call it "cause and effect" class. You'd have to pass it twice before you graduate, once when you take the class and again as part of an exit exam before they let you out.
It would be a long series of exercises, scientific experiments, philosophy, and real consequences.
Mixed bag, cpg. Mixed bag. It can vary from 100% (always creating the drama and being the victim) to 0% (not being responsible), but it will usually be somewhere in between.
I think that sometimes people look for the drama, as their homeostasis, because that's all they know. Sometimes they are born into more dramatic households and situations.
Sometimes it IS other people's faults (not in your OP, though). I don't want to rehash any of my crap here. However, I have a friend with whom I had NO problems from 1994 to 2000. He got married. Initially, his wife was cool and laissez-faire. Over the next 3 years, she changed. I couldn't go over there without her trying to a) get me to go to her home country in South America with them on vacation to meet her unattached cousins *looking for a green card*, b) amend my travel plans to meet her sister and her cousin living somewhere near my travel destinations, and c) trying to wedge her local divorced sister into any social event. I eventually ended being friends with this person because, even though I said "thanks, but no thanks" repeatedly, I couldn't stand to be within 1 mile of his wife.
Mixed bag, cpg. Mixed bag. It can vary from 100% (always creating the drama and being the victim) to 0% (not being responsible), but it will usually be somewhere in between.
I think that sometimes people look for the drama, as their homeostasis, because that's all they know. Sometimes they are born into more dramatic households and situations.
Sometimes it IS other people's faults (not in your OP, though). I don't want to rehash any of my crap here. However, I have a friend with whom I had NO problems from 1994 to 2000. He got married. Initially, his wife was cool and laissez-faire. Over the next 3 years, she changed. I couldn't go over there without her trying to a) get me to go to her home country in South America with them on vacation to meet her unattached cousins *looking for a green card*, b) amend my travel plans to meet her sister and her cousin living somewhere near my travel destinations, and c) trying to wedge her local divorced sister into any social event. I eventually ended being friends with this person because, even though I said "thanks, but no thanks" repeatedly, I couldn't stand to be within 1 mile of his wife.
I agree with the drama aspect.
People like drama. That's why we watch shows about pretty doctors with problems who shouldn't have problems, serial killers who only kill serial killers, real housewives who aren't real at all and chemistry teachers who make meth. Some people don't get a big enough rush about fiction, though, and that's when problems begin. My SO's sister is like this. Every day is a new crisis. She never has money, yet she can afford to go on vacation and buy a new car. She knows their cousin is a completely waste of space and a druggie but she hangs out with him and gives him money, and lets him take advantage of her. She teaches gymnastics and she hates the owner of the gym, yet she bends over backwards to work for the woman even though her paycheck barely covers gas for the week (she has another full-time job). She lives with us right now because she refuses to save money for a place. Sometimes we hide in the bedroom and pretend we are sleeping so we don't have to deal with the latest dramatic event. Not very mature, I know, but it's survival!
OTOH, there are some people who just can't say no and let people use them. However, at a certain point they are just as much to blame for letting that cycle continue.
My ex made lots of bad choices. Professional therapy would have probably helped him to make better choices. But how's a blue-collar guy with a high-school education and no health insurance, who's never known anything but dysfunction, going to get himself on that track? It would take a very, very motivated and resourceful individual.
It's a cycle, and breaking it is very, very difficult. I think what really broke my heart in the end was when I saw it continue with his son.
I should add that this guy got into Mensa and had at least a near-genius IQ.
It usually does continue. Kids become their parents.
So this blue-collar guy got into Mensa? He didn't make full use of his skills because of the bouncing around? Sometimes, college doesn't change people much.
Sometimes, it isn't there before, but the chemistry between parents causes it in the next gen. I grew up with this very shrewd, and not very attractive, Italian girl who found herself a very rich and nerdy guy to marry. The girl, from what I observed, did not come from a dysfunctional background. The nerdy guy seems to be high functioning, but learning what his parents did to make their money required (perfectly legal), meant that one had to turn their back on any morals to do it. They live extremely well in a nice newer suburb of LA, but their one child has had mental health issues from very early on. I don't know if they were inherited, or this wretched combination caused it.
A different thread on this forum reminded me of this question. These are people who always have money trouble, job trouble, romance trouble, etc., as if their lives are an ongoing soap opera. And it's NEVER THEIR FAULT.
I had an employee named Ella. I hired her to be the receptionist. Her major job requirement, aside from simple competence? Be at the office at 8:00 a.m. to answer the phone. And because she lived six blocks from the office, that was no problem.
So, the first month was groovy. No problem. Then she meets a guy. Two weeks later, she's moving in with the guy. The problem? His house is twenty miles down the interstate. So she mentions this to me, and then says, "I might be late every once in a while." To that, I say, "Ella, I don't mind the occasional problem, but don't make a habit of it." Well, she starts getting there 10, 15, 20 minutes late every freaking day. Like it never occurs to her to get out of bed earlier. But every day she's late because of a wreck or slow traffic because this drama was NOT HER FAULT.
Her starting salary? Perfectly adequate. But once she moved twenty miles away, she started burning up more gas. And then she and the boyfriend got two dogs, which needed vets, shots, food, you name it. And, suddenly, I wasn't paying her enough. So it wasn't that she hadn't budgeted. This drama was NOT HER FAULT.
And then the boyfriend would call her at the office and they would have arguments, and she would be on the phone for thirty or forty minutes while calls were coming in. Now she could have hung up the phone on him at any time, but this drama was NOT HER FAULT.
And her mother owned a huge parcel of land. But because of the woman's deteriorating health, Ella had power of attorney. So when her aunts and uncles were pressuring her to sell the land to them for a song, she came to me for advice. Don't do it, I advised her. And a real estate attorney who I recommended gave her the same advice. But she does it anyway. And then complains about how her aunts and uncles ripped her off. Because this drama was NOT HER FAULT.
And then her house burns down. And she and her boyfriend don't have fire insurance. But she swears she mailed the check, even though there's no record of payment. So this drama was NOT HER FAULT.
And every damned day, it was something new. And this drama WAS NEVER HER FAULT.
Here's my question. Why? These are otherwise intelligent people. Why can't people step back from their lives and make intelligent choices? Help me understand this.
What cracks me up is that some of the very people you are describing in this post will read it and never see themselves
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