Does the sex industry 'allow' men to degrade average women?
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In the end, we shouldn't expect the fences of our own sexual boundaries to contain the sexuality of others.
I think this is the best piece of wisdom to come from this entire thread.
Just because you, personally, find sex act X to be degrading, or disgusting, or immoral, doesn't mean that you should project your feelings onto the rest of humanity and assume they feel the same. You have every right to feel the way you do, and you have every right not to partake in X if you do not want to, however, you also have to live with the consequences, if any, of that decision.
I think this is the best piece of wisdom to come from this entire thread.
Just because you, personally, find sex act X to be degrading, or disgusting, or immoral, doesn't mean that you should project your feelings onto the rest of humanity and assume they feel the same. You have every right to feel the way you do, and you have every right not to partake in X if you do not want to, however, you also have to live with the consequences, if any, of that decision.
Who here is projecting their feelings on to the rest of humanity? What do you mean by having to live with the consequences of the decision to not partake in X?
My information about porn actresses comes from talking to them. The dysfuntion=porn actress/stripper/prostitute myth is convenient for those opposed to the sex industry, but it has little basis in reality. The one factor that seems to be almost universally true of those working in porn (male and female), is that they experimented with sex (consensually, and with partners in the same age range) at an earlier age than is typical. For many of them, this represented a push-back against a conservative home life. That said, each individual working in porn has his/her own story. The most common reason for women choosing to work in porn is financial compensation. Going beyond that however, a surprising number of them see the porn industry as a way to play-out sexual fantasy under strictly-controlled conditions.
We all have sexual fantasies. Sometimes, we share those fantasies with our partners in hopes that they may find them as arousing as we do. If they do, no problem. If not, it's time to drop it. No one should incessantly pressure another to engage in unwanted behavior. Doing so signals a lack of respect for that person, and is obviously going to stress that relationship. However, people who do participate in alternative sexual lifestyles had to begin somewhere. At some time in their personal histories, they talked to their partners about their fantasies. It's not the behavior in and of itself that is problematic; rather, it's the badgering of one's partner to participate when they're obviously not interested. In regards to commercial pornography, my ultimate point is that the problem is a function of the psychological character of the individual consumer, not of the product itself.
Anyone who thinks that the sexuality of all women, or of all men, can be defined by a handful of specific sexual acts; has a juvenile understanding of human sexuality. ATM seems to me to be anti-erotic. I can't imagine it providing arousal to anyone involved. At the risk of being excoriated en masse, I'll address one of the fantasies you've mentioned: rape. Rape fantasies are relatively common for both women and men. In fact, both women and men fantasize about taking both the active and passive roles in such fantasies. That doesn't mean that any of them want this to actually happen in reality. It does mean that, within a controlled environment with a trusted partner, this provides an opportunity to explore sexual limits. Here is a Psychology Today story concerning women's (passive) rape fantasies:
In the end, we shouldn't expect the fences of our own sexual boundaries to contain the sexuality of others.
I can't say I know any porn stars, nor have I done any large scale research of those in the sex trade. Do you know of some academic research that backs up your assertions? I have known in my hometown people who were the stand on a street corner type of prostitutes, and some that worked in less than glamorous backgrounds. To the best I could determine, they came from dysfunctional backgrounds and hadn't really been shown any skills much beyond working a minimum wage job.
Who is expecting the fences of our own boundaries to contain the sexuality of others? You make a good point though, in that normal healthy human sexuality means that one partner can say no, and life moves on. There really is no focus on that part of human sexuality(in porn), that it is okay for an individual to have a boundary/fence, and for their partner to be able to handle being told no in an adult manner.
Who here is projecting their feelings on to the rest of humanity? What do you mean by having to live with the consequences of the decision to not partake in X?
What I mean is there is competition amongst humans to find a spouse. One aspect of that competition is sexual behavior/compatibility. I you do not do X, but a large portion of others your gender do, you may find that potential lovers leave you for someone who will, and it matters not what X is.
And I am not projecting. At the risk of being repetitive, just because you (used generically) may find X disgusting does not mean the rest of us do. Since X is undefined for the purposes of this discussion, I am not condemning nor endorsing it. Merely pointing out the fact that some will like it, and others won't, and there is no universal standard.
I can't say I know any porn stars, nor have I done any large scale research of those in the sex trade. Do you know of some academic research that backs up your assertions? I have known in my hometown people who were the stand on a street corner type of prostitutes, and some that worked in less than glamorous backgrounds. To the best I could determine, they came from dysfunctional backgrounds and hadn't really been shown any skills much beyond working a minimum wage job.
Who is expecting the fences of our own boundaries to contain the sexuality of others? You make a good point though, in that normal healthy human sexuality means that one partner can say no, and life moves on. There really is no focus on that part of human sexuality(in porn), that it is okay for an individual to have a boundary/fence, and for their partner to be able to handle being told no in an adult manner.
The porn industry is quite insular, and there's a very high turnover rate among female performers--making it a very difficult thing to accurately study. I'm not familiar with any published academic research into the personal demographics of those who work in the industry. Most information is, like mine, anecdotal in nature. Through my acquaintanceship with one adult actress, I was able to build-up enough trust among some others in the industry.
I would agree with your general assessment of street prostitutes. Street prostitution operates at the lowest socioeconomic rung of the sex industry--being dominated by individuals who often find themselves in the most desperate of circumstances. However, it's important to remember that street prostitution accounts for a relatively small percentage of prostitution activity in The United States (estimates are 5-10 percent).
I think a lot of people want to fence others into their own definitions of "acceptable" sexual behavior. This attitude comes from both ends of the political spectrum. Since the early 1980's, the religious right and radical feminism have formed an unofficial alliance in regards to being the arbiters of other people's sexual behaviors. They may have different motives; but they share the common trait of judging, and often attempting to exert control over, the sexuality of those who don't subscribe to their ideological dogmas.
Going back towards the original discussion, I would argue that the very use of the term "degrade" and its derivatives; is judgmental in that it draws a negative connotation to behavior, even though those who choose to engage in that behavior may not view it as degrading.
There is a case emerging in The UK which relates very well to this thread. It involves a divorce petition, prompted by the claim that the plaintiff's partner is unwilling to recreate sexual fantasies which seem to have been inspired by pornography.
I've met too many women who publicly decried and privately WANTED things "rough". It was never for me, and was a signal I needed to vacate; but I've encountered it at least conversationally, at most via request.
WHO is going to say openly they would like a rape scenario? Pretty much no one, because the word itself carries such a powerful stigma (and rightfully so). But WHO is willing to admit privately that they want to say "no" BUT want their man to TAKE it, TAKE it and make them feel desired and frail against his power and helpless-yet-safe-because-this-is-make-believe, and to feel their body pushed to limits in a way that utterly screams use me...?
If I had a dime for every woman who'd ever said such a thing publicly, my pockets would be empty; but if I had a dime for every woman who's admitted such a thing privately TO ME, I could buy a nice steak dinner. They never know how to phrase it, but the desire is there, they just want YOU to be the one to say it so they can remain blameless if it's not all it's cracked up to be.
And as I said: NOT for me. I want a partner with whom I can make love and play a little rough, BUT before we experiment down any darker roads I'd have to build up one HELL of a lot of trust for her.
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Originally Posted by BradPiff
There's some women who like all this crazy stuff but they can't admit it because of the stigma. Men can pretty much say all the nasty things they like in the bedroom and no one says **** to them.
I admit, it's a tough road for women to walk when they want to talk about their sexuality. Women can't be open about sex like men can. This is why I never called a woman a "ho", or jumped in with other people to bash a woman who was open about her sexuality.
My god! Not too long ago a young girl killed herself (jumped in fount of a train!!) all because people found out she was having sex with different guys so kids in her school started to bully her about it. Here is the story: http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?se...ork&id=8860235
I remember I was reading an article the other day(if i can find the link ill post)about porn and how it's affected our lives and relationships. There was a woman who said she "dreads" her Boyfriends Birthday because of the basic understanding that on that day he can get "whatever he wants" sexually. She said she didn't mind dressing up but it's the "porn requests" that gets her nervous. I found that interesting because I know that must happen with alot of couples. Especially younger ones
I remember I was reading an article the other day(if i can find the link ill post)about porn and how it's affected our lives and relationships. There was a woman who said she "dreads" her Boyfriends Birthday because of the basic understanding that on that day he can get "whatever he wants" sexually. She said she didn't mind dressing up but it's the "porn requests" that gets her nervous. I found that interesting because I know that must happen with alot of couples. Especially younger ones
well if you do find it, link to it. I would want to read it.
Now, not talking about the older married people but the younger/middle age ones. I do beleive these men with gfs mostly only 'value' the woman for the access to 'porn requests' or whatever else they have been wanting to try sexually. I don't think most of them see much other value for having the girlfriend then that. This is why men love the FWB situation, it is basically the girlfriend but without all the actual time and effort involved in having the gf, just the sexual piece. If most of them could get a FWB situation, they wouldn't even bother with gfs. There was a guy on here who said as much, if not for 'needing sex' he wouldn't even bother with a gf/wife. IMO, most of them think like that and just won't admit it.
In the same area of the FWB thing, I think these men take an 'out there' concept if you will like porn requests and dumb them down or present them as the 'norm' to a woman. So then the gf or wife that isn't in on these things, the problem is HER. So she probably ends up doing things she might not do otherwise, but if it's being presented as 'the norm of what other women' do, of course she's going to feel less than.
I think men who translate porn into real life are morons. I seriously doubt that most women are interested in being slapped in the face with a penis or ATM (that is really unhygienic) or being choked.
Most porn stars only do what they do because they are being paid $$$$.
For the record, I don't think there's anything really wrong with porn as long as everyone involved is a consenting adult and I never really understood how porn is "degrading". Porn is simply sex that is recorded.
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