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Perhaps the love has gone out of the relationship and the guy has some issues but after the daughters post can we get off the "he's a monster, run as far as you can" judgemental posts?
There are many bitter (and rightfully so) ladies that seem to have come from much worse situations coming into the thread and painting this guy like he's Hitler based on what they went through. I agree that he likely needs some work but for STEP daughters to not wade in with what a monster he is....and they know the guy....that might tell you something.
It may be cathartic, I certainly feel for the various posters situations but at what point does this thread turn into the demonization of someone you've never met? I am not shocked that step daughters (who is paying for their college?) might not be super keen on daddy #2 when he came into the picture after they were grown....I am surprised that they didn't paint him as bad as the mom did.
I am holding back some examples I've seen of this from the guys side of things...generally what happened to my cousins.....I'm wondering how someone from say....his side of the family might describe the situation?
I think you make some valid points, mathguy, about not making a "rush to judgment."
I would suggest that the only person who knows the facts would be bikermom. She needs to make her own choices/decisions for herself. She wants to know if she should leave or be saved by counseling. None of us can answer that or give insightful advice. All we can do to help her is weed through what she has posted.
Robyn made a very valid observation. There is the inside/outside personalities of some people.
Much of what bikermom posted seemed to say that her husband was doing what he was doing to be a good guy, and she was the one doing the yelling and poor parenting. They sound like the words of a woman who has been systematically 'taught' to doubt her own reality.
She can't be such a poor parent if she raised a fine sounding, young woman such as the daughter who posted here. aimforit sounds as if she is conflicted as well. She sees one thing from her stepfather, but is confused by the negative things she sees. The reality of life with this guy is not straight forward. How can that be a good thing?
When there may be a controlling personality involved in the life of someone, and they ask for help, all anyone can do is try to turn on the light bulb so they can see what is going on around them more clearly. The rest is up to them. They must define their boundaries and choose what they will and will not allow in their life.
This is the best reason to seek individual counseling and become grounded with yourself before you address the realtionship.
Perhaps the love has gone out of the relationship and the guy has some issues but after the daughters post can we get off the "he's a monster, run as far as you can" judgemental posts?
There are many bitter (and rightfully so) ladies that seem to have come from much worse situations coming into the thread and painting this guy like he's Hitler based on what they went through. I agree that he likely needs some work but for STEP daughters to not wade in with what a monster he is....and they know the guy....that might tell you something.
It may be cathartic, I certainly feel for the various posters situations but at what point does this thread turn into the demonization of someone you've never met? I am not shocked that step daughters (who is paying for their college?) might not be super keen on daddy #2 when he came into the picture after they were grown....I am surprised that they didn't paint him as bad as the mom did.
I am holding back some examples I've seen of this from the guys side of things...generally what happened to my cousins.....I'm wondering how someone from say....his side of the family might describe the situation?
I was probably the closest one to him because I lived with them both from my sophomore year of high school until my senior year. My older two sisters were married or in college by then and living in different states or towns, and my brother was in college. As to who has payed for our college, does it really matter? That was a weird question. But no, it wasn't him or our mom... it was grants and student loans. They all have their degrees, but I still have a ways to go. I was naturally closer to him since I lived with them and nearer to Him during college as well.
As much as it tears me up to say this, partly because of my cloudiness of having been in the situation, I would probably classify him as emotionally abusive, but my sisters would probably definately classify him as that. I would definately say that he was too hard on these kids many times... Other things he has done that I didn't agree with; making the children take long naps if they were in trouble (like laying in their rooms ALL day), punishing one of the boys for having an accident in his pants (#1 and #2), making them write their times tables 200 plus times or they could get licks if they didn't write them, and telling them not to cry. Now, having said that, do I think it made him happy to whip them and that he whipped them hard, or in an inappropriate manner- no, not at all. I just think that he is old-fashioned, and he was not very emotionally in tune with them or my mother. Does he love them all? Yes, with all his heart like he says... but some people do not really know how to show love. Was his adoption training sufficient?- Well, can you tell if someone will know how to love a child and trust they will give them healthy discipline and the emotional love that they need in what is it, six weeks of training or so? Should they not be allowed to adopt? Well, should we restrict anyone from having children at all... if so, then these children might not have been born in the first place because the first alcoholic or drug addicted parents weren't doing a very good job, AT ALL. I am very happy that my mother and step dad ended up with them. Because now they are in our family, and hopefully they will have a blessed life, despite all of these bumps in the road. I am a firm believer that God allows suffering so it might bring us to Him. I do believe us grown children can be of some help in getting them in that direction. My mom is a believer as well, and I believe that it is God's will she has them and that she will help them just as they will help her through this short journey of life to live a good one.
As for my mother's yelling, she was the primary caretaker. She has been very stressed being under his control and having to basically single handedly run the household. I think that she is trying to change that and will change that. (Ultimately we just shouldn't judge anyone, whether it's making a man seem like Hitler or a stressed out Mom who yells. Who are we, mere humans, to point the finger rudely at anyone. Truly only God knows the whole circumstance and the heart of each and every man and woman here on earth anyway. Hopefully, we'll just help each other out along the way.)
I am sad for the children because I know divorce is hard, but probably definately better in the long run if abuse and neglect are involved, I am sad for my step dad because he does not see it all in this light, did not see that he was doing things inappropriately even when he was told and did not change like he said he would, I am happy for my mother because I feel that she lived under his control and this burden is lifted off of her shoulders now.
I guess, to sum it up, this is my hope and prayer for each person effected by the situation (and even for you, the threaders in whatever you are going through as well, may God bless you and help you through it.) "And we know that in all things God works for the good for those who love God and are called according to His purposes." Romans 8:28
Other things he has done that I didn't agree with; making the children take long naps if they were in trouble (like laying in their rooms ALL day), punishing one of the boys for having an accident in his pants (#1 and #2), making them write their times tables 200 plus times or they could get licks if they didn't write them, and telling them not to cry.
It IS hard to believe sometimes that someone would do these things out of love, but I actually DO understand that...... Yeah, these kids need a breather I think.
I still have always gotten the impression that this man truly loves the children, but have yet to really see something that tells me he loves the mother/OP all that much.... Again, that they were on the path to divorce with little resistence from him UNTIL he found out the kids were going with her speaks volumes.... Yet you truly believe he loves them all, so who am I to really judge that??
My husband loves my children. With that said, he emotionally, verbally, and mentally abused us. Still to this day, he says he will not own it, he did not do it.
I know that he did it, I finally came out from underneath it all. Do my kids know? I dont know. It is what they lived for all of their lives. We have only been gone since 090107. I do think they feel a difference. When they are with him, they have to behave in a different manner. They have to be perfect, then they come home, and for three days, the effect of it goes on... The anger and hurt, any of the feelings they were having there, all bottled up and not able to come out, it takes days to get out, once they are home, then they have a few days of normalcy, and it starts over again.
You were in the situation and you would classify it as emotional abuse. It is good that you recognize this, and it is very good that your mother does.
All of the years I DID NOT recognize it, were years of him stomping me into the ground. Also years of allowing other people to treat me badly, outside of the home, because i thought it was normal behavior.
But now I know...it is not. I wake up every day and thank the Good Lord above for what he has done for the kids and I. He has helped set us free........
I was probably the closest one to him because I lived with them both from my sophomore year of high school until my senior year. My older two sisters were married or in college by then and living in different states or towns, and my brother was in college. As to who has payed for our college, does it really matter? That was a weird question. But no, it wasn't him or our mom... it was grants and student loans. They all have their degrees, but I still have a ways to go. I was naturally closer to him since I lived with them and nearer to Him during college as well.
As much as it tears me up to say this, partly because of my cloudiness of having been in the situation, I would probably classify him as emotionally abusive, but my sisters would probably definately classify him as that. I would definately say that he was too hard on these kids many times... Other things he has done that I didn't agree with; making the children take long naps if they were in trouble (like laying in their rooms ALL day), punishing one of the boys for having an accident in his pants (#1 and #2), making them write their times tables 200 plus times or they could get licks if they didn't write them, and telling them not to cry. Now, having said that, do I think it made him happy to whip them and that he whipped them hard, or in an inappropriate manner- no, not at all. I just think that he is old-fashioned, and he was not very emotionally in tune with them or my mother. Does he love them all? Yes, with all his heart like he says... but some people do not really know how to show love. Was his adoption training sufficient?- Well, can you tell if someone will know how to love a child and trust they will give them healthy discipline and the emotional love that they need in what is it, six weeks of training or so? Should they not be allowed to adopt? Well, should we restrict anyone from having children at all... if so, then these children might not have been born in the first place because the first alcoholic or drug addicted parents weren't doing a very good job, AT ALL. I am very happy that my mother and step dad ended up with them. Because now they are in our family, and hopefully they will have a blessed life, despite all of these bumps in the road. I am a firm believer that God allows suffering so it might bring us to Him. I do believe us grown children can be of some help in getting them in that direction. My mom is a believer as well, and I believe that it is God's will she has them and that she will help them just as they will help her through this short journey of life to live a good one.
As for my mother's yelling, she was the primary caretaker. She has been very stressed being under his control and having to basically single handedly run the household. I think that she is trying to change that and will change that. (Ultimately we just shouldn't judge anyone, whether it's making a man seem like Hitler or a stressed out Mom who yells. Who are we, mere humans, to point the finger rudely at anyone. Truly only God knows the whole circumstance and the heart of each and every man and woman here on earth anyway. Hopefully, we'll just help each other out along the way.)
I am sad for the children because I know divorce is hard, but probably definately better in the long run if abuse and neglect are involved, I am sad for my step dad because he does not see it all in this light, did not see that he was doing things inappropriately even when he was told and did not change like he said he would, I am happy for my mother because I feel that she lived under his control and this burden is lifted off of her shoulders now.
I guess, to sum it up, this is my hope and prayer for each person effected by the situation (and even for you, the threaders in whatever you are going through as well, may God bless you and help you through it.) "And we know that in all things God works for the good for those who love God and are called according to His purposes." Romans 8:28
What I was getting at with the pay's for college thing.....was that here you have a guy with a listed fault as "too controlling etc. about money". What I'm reading though is that the mom is no longer able to work and has therefore suffered a partial drop in income and there are 5 kids in the house and I was wondering if they were doing stuff to help support the other kids too. Money problems is one of THE top stresses on a relationship so I was wondering about that making things worse than they used to be.
I find your "single handedly run the household" comment interesting....does he work or provide at all? If not the situation must be near destitution. Did he lose his job? (Another big stress). At the very least it sounds like he doesn't help around the house at all?
My husband loves my children. With that said, he emotionally, verbally, and mentally abused us. Still to this day, he says he will not own it, he did not do it.
I know that he did it, I finally came out from underneath it all. Do my kids know? I dont know. It is what they lived for all of their lives. We have only been gone since 090107. I do think they feel a difference. When they are with him, they have to behave in a different manner. They have to be perfect, then they come home, and for three days, the effect of it goes on... The anger and hurt, any of the feelings they were having there, all bottled up and not able to come out, it takes days to get out, once they are home, then they have a few days of normalcy, and it starts over again.
You were in the situation and you would classify it as emotional abuse. It is good that you recognize this, and it is very good that your mother does.
All of the years I DID NOT recognize it, were years of him stomping me into the ground. Also years of allowing other people to treat me badly, outside of the home, because i thought it was normal behavior.
But now I know...it is not. I wake up every day and thank the Good Lord above for what he has done for the kids and I. He has helped set us free........
Since we are throwing in anecdotes of other relationships....
My cousins wife got pregnant so he married her. He truly loved her.
After five years, she wanted to be "free" so she divorced him and refused counseling and during the process he found out the child wasn't his. He still pays child support and takes care of the kid and is involved which is good because the mom is in a bar every night and has a new boyfriend on a monthly basis. He will never be FREE of the woman as he's taken a bold step to stay involved in the life of a child he raised. He goes to parent-teacher conferences and works with the kid as much as possible as the reports coming home were that the mom never reads to him or helps him with homework and he's falling way behind grade level.
Wow, your situation is really fresh as well. I am so glad to hear that you had the strength to leave with your children. Anyone that they feel they have to walk on eggshells to be around is not good for them. That is too hard for a child, and I do believe you that he was abusive. I am just glad that you are not in it anymore.
Studies show abusive people get worse over time, so maybe that is why I didn't have a big problem with his control when I was in high school. I really didn't give them much trouble, and the extent of his control over me was not giving me money and only allowing me to talk on the phone for 15 minutes per night, because I probably would've been on it for at least an hour if I didn't have that rule. And ofcourse I didn't like that at all. As far as my mom goes, it was more control over money. There is probably more also that I can't remember right this minute. He seemed to be one of those, "I've won you" men. They are wonderful during the "courtship" but then change a lot after your're married, as in he did not show my mother the affection and appreciation she needed.
To Mathguy:
Sorry about being defencive over the college payment thing.
About the single handed thing, yes he works to support the household. He also interacts very little with the kids, and he doesn't help out or show her appreciation in the way she wanted to receive it, like with words and stuff. Instead, his thinking is that providing is showing his appreciation and so he doesn't have to with words except for the occasional holiday.
He's so tight with his money that he told my mom to only spend $100 total for the kids for Christmas, that's $20 per kid. The dollar store won't even buy good gifts for that! And so she said that maybe they just wouldn't have a Christmas and his responce was, "Good!" He really is stressed over money, but he hasn't thought logically about a lot of things.
To VaFury:
I guess it's just a situation of words over actions. I say that he loves them because that is what he says. And I do honestly believe him, and so does my mom. He probably might not love my mom as much now because his heart is broken and he's probably angry at her. But he just didn't show the love properly, you know? Actions speak louder than words.
Looking back, if it were me, I know that I would've been older, but I would've felt awful if he told me to sleep on the bathroom floor. I'm sure I would've called my real dad to come and get me, or just have left if I was driving by then. It's just not right.
Since we are throwing in anecdotes of other relationships....
My cousins wife got pregnant so he married her. He truly loved her.
After five years, she wanted to be "free" so she divorced him and refused counseling and during the process he found out the child wasn't his. He still pays child support and takes care of the kid and is involved which is good because the mom is in a bar every night and has a new boyfriend on a monthly basis. He will never be FREE of the woman as he's taken a bold step to stay involved in the life of a child he raised. He goes to parent-teacher conferences and works with the kid as much as possible as the reports coming home were that the mom never reads to him or helps him with homework and he's falling way behind grade level.
You obviously will never know the freedom I am speaking of, and I will only leave it at that. I have not seen the inside of a bar. I am responsible for my children at all times, good for your cousin.
He helped raise a child who he thought for five years was his. For him to find out that it wasn't, after all of this time, if he were to just not have anything to do with the child, would make him not much of a man.
He is doing the right thing...what would you do? Kick the child that you thought was yours for years to the curb because you one day found out the child was not yours?
The freedom I won is very important in my life and my childrens, and one day, it will be, in my husbands.
For the most part , " council ling" just prolongs the pain. I think such can be good for children , and their problems, but , for adults , it almost never works.
Everyone I know , ( that has had marriage problems ) has tried marriage council a time or two ...they always end in divorce any way.
Always two sides to any story. the Guy that does bad , hurtful things , is , often acting out no more then like a child , they , are not happy , and they take it out on their partners , and their kids..Women , do it too........unless there are serious mental issues , often the relationship is the problem. many people have gone on to lead a happy and full filing life , after the bad marriage is over . Run , don't walk ,from these relationships , life is too short.......
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