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The women who make the real mistakes are the ones who marry the guy who seems exciting on the surface but who ends up being a jerk.
Everyone is exciting on the surface. The truth is that people changge, for the better or for the wors, but no one stays the same. No one is a psychic who can predit the state of their relansthip or partner 10 years from now.
Those women only made a mistake if they didn't learn from it. You can choose the most perfect man on the planet but still not know if he's going to cheat on you years down the road (see kobe bryant, tiger woods, etc.).
My point is that it doesn't matter who you marry, you can't predict the future. So I don't blame women who marry good guys only to have said guy change for the worse.
It's a complex subject, homina, and I want to talk about it but I feel bad for writing walls of text and I'm afraid of getting too off topic, though.
Wanting to be lusted after, the "believable" at the hard-on level attraction, that some men, whether they be nice, or "nice" or what, crave... It's so fleeting though. And there is always someone better. That is another bit of the complexity of that whole psychological pain, at least for women, is that consumerist culture works very hard to convince every one of us that we have very serious, unforgivable really, flaws in how we look. "What? You think you look ok? Ha, well...let us show you what REAL beauty looks like. On every page of every magazine in every store, on every screen, in every film, on and on. Oh and did we mention, for just 3 low payments of $99.99 each you, too, can have the miracle cream that the stars use to be so much more beautiful than you. Be sure to visit our website for the full line of hair care products, too, you disgusting hag (Offer good for a limited time only with qualifying credit no one will ever love you ask your doctor about prescriptions for weight loss because also, you're fat side effects may include a rash, suicidal thoughts, or death.) When a man appreciates me for my looks, all I can think is, "Well I guess I met his minimum bar, but he'd rather have...well...an awful lot of women actually. Oh look. There is one, now. *sigh*"
But there is only one me so if I feel my man finds really special things about WHO I am, beneath just surface lust, then I might...maybe...be able to believe he enjoys being with me, and isn't just like "well, she's the best I'm likely to get. But I sure wish I could do better."
It is though, the same thing you are talking about but with only different criteria. Isn't that funny? It's actually a feeling we've got in common, and it's probably a feeling most PEOPLE find some reason to feel. A basic fear that we really are not good enough to be loved. That others are better. That we cannot compete. Single people don't even have a monopoly on it, despite the obvious fact that we HAVE a partner! Kind of a trip when you think about it.
That's what I thought as I responded. Common ground. I really believe, or maybe I hope that many men who post here looking for someone to say "I understand" don't really want to sabotage that outcome with references to funny stats or to chad or hypergamy. I don't believe that these guys, most of them anyway, really believe that women are hopelessly bound to chase the next best guy despite her commitments. No, I think they're afraid she might. They're afraid they're not enough to keep her interested, and deep down in their most insecure selves they think she should bolt if someone better comes along. And while that seems to remove her being trustworthy from the scenario, I think it's more himself he can't trust to deserve her committed love. And he can't admit that.
No, most guys most of the time, especially when life has kicked their a$$ a bit, have to make a show of being impervious to **** like fear and hurt. But that's a topic for another thread. Or not. It's sad, regardless.
That's what I thought as I responded. Common ground. I really believe, or maybe I hope that many men who post here looking for someone to say "I understand" don't really want to sabotage that outcome with references to funny stats or to chad or hypergamy. I don't believe that these guys, most of them anyway, really believe that women are hopelessly bound to chase the next best guy despite her commitments. No, I think they're afraid she might. They're afraid they're not enough to keep her interested, and deep down in their most insecure selves they think she should bolt if someone better comes along. And while that seems to remove her being trustworthy from the scenario, I think it's more himself he can't trust to deserve her committed love. And he can't admit that.
No, most guys most of the time, especially when life has kicked their a$$ a bit, have to make a show of being impervious to **** like fear and hurt. But that's a topic for another thread. Or not. It's sad, regardless.
The women who make the real mistakes are the ones who marry the guy who seems exciting on the surface but who ends up being a jerk. I would not call my ex a "Chad." He was an aggressive alpha guy on the surface, but I was just young and stupid and not seeing red flags. There were MANY. Mostly I ended up with him because he fastened onto me hard and through browbeating, brainwashing, gaslighting, creating life situations where I had no choice but to keep him to survive...he used all of these manipulations to force me to stay. He went around behind my back and physically beat up and intimidated my friends until I had no friends left, and could only sit at home dancing attendance on his needs, just how he wanted it. He was a mistake. SUCH a mistake.
He was no Chad, nor a Timothy either (though actually that is part of his real name)...he was more like a big mean dog who demanded I hold his leash. What is that? Where does that fit into your ultimate theory algorithm of how all of love, dating, and biology works? And the man I am with now, if I described him, would fit your "Timothy" thing probably except he isn't my provider and I'm not trying to get him to raise my kids. He's the quiet nerdy guy nobody looks at twice. But I'm damn glad he got my attention. We're enjoying a passion for the ages, my friend.
Is your current partner the type of guy you would have gone for before before your first marriage, or did making those kinds of mistakes open you up to quieter, more introverted types?
On the surface it’s easy to argue that your story fits the narrative. I don’t espouse incel or redpill ideologies, but I think most stereotypes and tropes have nuggets of truth in them. I think your story is such a nugget. Your guy...was he actively trying on the dating market? How did he come to be alone for nearly 60 years? Are you the first to give him a real shot?
Your stories are very bittersweet to me. You obviously care for him a great deal, and he for you, and that aspect is beautiful. But I’m here to learn, and I tend to project myself into the situations I read about. Your stories also make me wonder...am I going to have to wait another 20-30 years to find someone willing to look past the homeliness and dryness for whatever else I might have to offer? Because that fits the trope too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
Wanting to be lusted after, the "believable" at the hard-on level attraction, that some men, whether they be nice, or "nice" or what, crave... It's so fleeting though. And there is always someone better.
It may be fleeting but I think that being seen as attractive and sexually valuable is an important part of one’s self image. What would your image of yourself or men be if you’d never gotten any such validation? What kinds of things would you do or be willing to do to receive it? Maybe that’s why some guys resort to false “niceness.” I can tell you that NOT being seen as attractive has had serious implications for my self-image. I’ve had one woman be attracted to me in my life, and it was a powerful enough experience for me to want to change my life to give me another shot at it. It was fleeting though. Almost exactly a month from asking me out and couldn’t keep her hands off me to “Don’t touch me” and driving me away.
No, most guys most of the time, especially when life has kicked their a$$ a bit, have to make a show of being impervious to **** like fear and hurt. But that's a topic for another thread. Or not. It's sad, regardless.
We get TOLD to make a show of being impervious. Hell, it’s happened to me on here. I’ve been told I need to keep my feelings of hurt to myself, and I’ve been told that there was “something wrong with me” for articulating the precise nature of a social anxiety of mine. Result: I’m more likely to keep such things bottled up.
We get TOLD to make a show of being impervious. Hell, it’s happened to me on here. I’ve been told I need to keep my feelings of hurt to myself, and I’ve been told that there was “something wrong with me†for articulating the precise nature of a social anxiety of mine. Result: I’m more likely to keep such things bottled up.
I agree entirely about what we're told. I think people, even fairly open minded people expect men and women to behave a certain way, and we may pay a price if we don't. Sometimes the price is worth it.
Is your current partner the type of guy you would have gone for before before your first marriage, or did making those kinds of mistakes open you up to quieter, more introverted types?
...
Your stories are very bittersweet to me. You obviously care for him a great deal, and he for you, and that aspect is beautiful. But I’m here to learn, and I tend to project myself into the situations I read about. Your stories also make me wonder...am I going to have to wait another 20-30 years to find someone willing to look past the homeliness and dryness for whatever else I might have to offer? Because that fits the trope too.
Yes, exactly. Which is why I find it exponentially more flattering when a 25-year-old woman shows interest in me, than when a 35- or a 45-year-old woman shows it, even if the latter looks more attractive. I realize that she could be after my money too (I work a decent-paying job), but filtering out such types isn't difficult.
Quote:
Originally Posted by At Arms Length
It may be fleeting but I think that being seen as attractive and sexually valuable is an important part of one’s self image. What would your image of yourself or men be if you’d never gotten any such validation? What kinds of things would you do or be willing to do to receive it? Maybe that’s why some guys resort to false “niceness.” I can tell you that NOT being seen as attractive has had serious implications for my self-image. I’ve had one woman be attracted to me in my life, and it was a powerful enough experience for me to want to change my life to give me another shot at it. It was fleeting though. Almost exactly a month from asking me out and couldn’t keep her hands off me to “Don’t touch me” and driving me away.
This is what I was getting at earlier, but you said it better than I did. Having a woman lust after you means she's into you for something you ARE. No extra work necessary; whatever she likes, you already got, and your car/money/clothes is just icing on the cake. Having a woman settle down with you later in life means she's into you for something you PROVIDE. Be it stability, security, or a certain lifestyle; without that, she'd probably want nothing to do with you.
False niceness could also be young stable providers following societal indoctrination. Our parents, teachers, and media pushes the "be nice and she'll see how good of a person you are" message ad nauseam. Knowing nothing else, young stable providers embrace that advice, even if knowing in the back of their minds that something seems off about it. It worked for society in the 50's, but not today. And yet, our society keeps pushing the "just be nice" message. Because today, it benefits women for many reasons. As well as 20% of men (the naturally desirable ones), who know well enough to blithely ignore all of it.
Last edited by MillennialUrbanist; 11-17-2018 at 09:02 AM..
As well as 20% of men (the naturally desirable ones), who know well enough to blithely ignore all of it.
Don’t have time to break into all of what you said. But I don’t believe the 80:20 thing is applicable on a general scale. I don’t believe that only 20% of men are desirable and the rest are SOL. Human attraction works differently than that. I think it’s generally true that women find a proportion of men attractive and a greater proportion to be unattractive. It may not be 80:20 but for argument’s sake let’s say it is for now.
Different types of men will fit into different categories for different women. Most men will find that some women find them attractive and others don’t. That said, I do believe that there are certain types of guys who fit into most women’s “20%” and other types who fit into women’s “80%”. For evidence, I’d say judging by women’s reactions to Jason Momoa proves that certain men are attractive to most women. My life experences lead me to believe that I go into the unattractive 80% for women I’ve met. It’s very rare bordering on never that one finds me attractive.
The same thing goes for women, by the way, and how men judge their attractiveness.
This is what I was getting at earlier, but you said it better than I did. Having a woman lust after you means she's into you for something you ARE. No extra work necessary; whatever she likes, you already got, and your car/money/clothes is just icing on the cake. Having a woman settle down with you later in life means she's into you for something you PROVIDE. Be it stability, security, or a certain lifestyle; without that, she'd probably want nothing to do with you.
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This doesn't even make any sense. The idea that being lusted after is truer than a real emotional connection is too simplistic. A woman who's interested in a man later in life generally PROVIDES for herself in many important ways. By that time she's used to taking care of herself; many women have their own homes, cars, and 401Ks. She buys her own stuff, plans her own trips, and pays her own bills. She's not looking for a provider, she's looking for a companion.
It's yet another example of how women can't win--plenty of unhappy internet dudes complain that women who *don't* need a provider are the problem since that's a man's true role in society. But then if she does want to be taken care of, that's taking advantage of a man. What's she supposed to do, then?
And don't forget women get looked over, as well. Plenty of women know the feeling of seeing men drooling over the hot babes and showering them with attention, while they've never been treated like that. Sure it's disappointing, but everyone needs to get on with their lives.
Last edited by fleetiebelle; 11-17-2018 at 09:53 AM..
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Having a woman lust after you means she's into you for something you ARE. No extra work necessary; whatever she likes, you already got, and your car/money/clothes is just icing on the cake. Having a woman settle down with you later in life means she's into you for something you PROVIDE. Be it stability, security, or a certain lifestyle; without that, she'd probably want nothing to do with you.
