Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Here's a scenario (that I've known of personally, and I'm sure it's not uncommon):
Wife is a nag, a b*tch, belittles husband in front of other people, she stays with him for the paycheck and the convenience, they sleep in separate bedrooms, it is not a good marriage by anyone's definition. She is not a loving, supportive wife by any stretch of the imagination.
But then when husband has an affair, because he is dying inside emotionally and he hasn't had sex with his wife (or anyone else) for months or years, suddenly HE is the bad guy, wife tells EVERYONE what a horrible man he is for CHEATING on her, and because even the Bible says adultery is grounds for divorce, SHE is the victim.
IMO the wife's behavior was worse than the husband's. And I guess I've seen enough situations like this, that I've become conditioned, whenever I hear someone bemoan the fact that their spouse cheated on them, I immediately wonder "Well, how did you treat your spouse in the months or years leading up to that?"
So, in my OP, when I asked if adultery is the worse thing a person can do, I didn't mean to compare it to rape or drugs or whatever.......I just think that it's the other things (perhaps unseen) going on in a marriage that are the real poison.
If it's that damn bad to be around her, "nagging" and a "b*tch", then he can leave her BEFORE he hooks up with someone else.
It's not that damn difficult. If you no longer want to be with your s/o, then fricken leave them before you start up with someone else. This goes for males and females.
If it's that damn bad to be around her, "nagging" and a "b*tch", then he can leave her BEFORE he hooks up with someone else.
It's not that damn difficult. If you no longer want to be with your s/o, then fricken leave them before you start up with someone else. This goes for males and females.
True. I feel bad OP you didn't have a healthy support system around you at the time.
I think men lack emotional support they need on all fronts in life. Just as we are learning a woman can do everything a man can, we are learning men can be just as emotional and breakable as women.
Sometimes I think all this destruction of unity and each other is a built in program to the larger plan to control us as a species. There are too many of us. Just like with crowded animals...we have turned on each other to thrive.
To say something "hurts other people" in the sense of hurting someone's feelings isn't enough to say it's necessarily morally wrong. Dumping someone hurts their feelings. ... I don't see these things automatically being condemned as wrong as a result.
You are correct. However, in the case of cheating/infidelity, you have - presumably - made an explicit promise to your spouse to not engage in certain actions that will cause them harm, and you have a moral obligation to honor that commitment. At the very least, commiting to a relationship has some universal expectations implicit to that commitment, one of which is sexual fidelity. If you wish to have an exception to this expectation, it needs to be explicitly stated and agreed upon.
If it's that damn bad to be around her, "nagging" and a "b*tch", then he can leave her BEFORE he hooks up with someone else.
It's not that damn difficult. If you no longer want to be with your s/o, then fricken leave them before you start up with someone else. This goes for males and females.
Hear, hear !
Hardly a complex concept and yet so many seem unable to grasp it.... If the relationship is no longer satisfactory then just find one which suits you better be it sexually or emotionally... I have always loved the "it was an accident" expression.
There you were minding your own business, waiting for the bus or having a quiet drink in a bar when suddenly this woman/man bumped into you so violently it blew you up to her/his room , all your clothes fell off and poof !!! your genitals somehow managed to engage in a locking game with this unwanted , unasked for interloper's.... Very accidental indeed.
Genitals have a habit of simply slipping into others' by accident ! Absolutely no choice, personal responsibility or personal decision can be put at the door of cheats. Pure chance meetings of the human nether regions....
One should really be wary of even stepping out of the front door just in case one simply is victim of such accidents....
You are correct. However, in the case of cheating/infidelity, you have - presumably - made an explicit promise to your spouse to not engage in certain actions that will cause them harm, and you have a moral obligation to honor that commitment. At the very least, commiting to a relationship has some universal expectations implicit to that commitment, one of which is sexual fidelity. If you wish to have an exception to this expectation, it needs to be explicitly stated and agreed upon.
Promises and agreements aren't always sacrosanct. They can't be considered binding if allowing them to be broken upholds something more important than the consequences of breaking them. While this is a subjective matter, you could argue that the freedom to sleep with whom one chooses is an important personal liberty, particularly given that we as a society claim to value self-expression, and that that's more important than keeping a fidelity agreement.
And it's morally questionable whether someone has a right to say that person with whom they're entering a relationship can or can't sleep with someone else. Why does a person have the right to say what someone else can do with their body? By your logic, if it was generally accepted that marriage was permanent, you would need to get someone you wanted to marry to "allow" you to divorce in the future if you ever wanted to. Not a very appealing prospect.
If it's that damn bad to be around her, "nagging" and a "b*tch", then he can leave her BEFORE he hooks up with someone else.
It's not that damn difficult. If you no longer want to be with your s/o, then fricken leave them before you start up with someone else. This goes for males and females.
I've said what you've said numerous times in my prior posts, but then I'm countered with, "But people 'make mistakes'! They love their SO but they were just 'caught' in a 'weak' moment..." or "Anyone can have a 'lapse in judgement' in an 'otherwise happy' relationship, even YOU. And if you say you'd never cheat, you're a liar..."
I've come to the conclusion that there are people in this world who think an SO "sharing their genitals with someone else" is about as casual and a "non event" as going to have a cup of coffee with someone at Starbucks. Their moral compass is non-existent as is their comprehension of respecting someone that they love and honoring the vows/commitment that they chose to commit to when they CHOSE to enter into a MONOGAMOUS relationship with someone. These type of people should never be in monogamous relationships and instead stay single or enter into "open" or "polyamorous" relationships.
But the reason these types of people still enter into monogamous relationships is because they want the best of both worlds: a person who is committed sexually and emotionally to them while having the freedom to choose notto reciprocate that commitment and the freedomto have sexual intercourse with anyonethey desire. Very pathetic; but unfortunately quite common, as is evidenced by the postings of some of the members here.
You don't owe people honesty if the practical consequences of being honest for yourself are far worse than the consequences for others would be if you were dishonest.
I disagree. Frankly, I think it sounds like a rationalization for doing whatever one pleases, regardless of the impact on others. If the wife or GF of a monogamous man cheated on him, would he want her to keep quiet about it to protect his feelings? I don't think so. I think he'd want the truth.
I disagree. Frankly, I think it sounds like a rationalization for doing whatever one pleases, regardless of the impact on others. If the wife or GF of a monogamous man cheated on him, would he want her to keep quiet about it to protect his feelings? I don't think so. I think he'd want the truth.
Even if he did, it wouldn't mean his wife/GF would be obligated to tell him about it. In fact, who with any common sense would do that, given that it would needlessly cause harm?
And as far as you saying what I said was a "rationalization," you're the one that opened the door to it by saying many people can't be monogamous but then also saying that if men are honest about it, their dating pool will dwindle to "nearly nothing." Something has to give there. Do you really expect men to ruin their romantic lives for the sake of "honesty"? Would you do that?
Promises and agreements aren't always sacrosanct. They can't be considered binding if allowing them to be broken upholds something more important than the consequences of breaking them. While this is a subjective matter, you could argue that the freedom to sleep with whom one chooses is an important personal liberty, particularly given that we as a society claim to value self-expression, and that that's more important than keeping a fidelity agreement.
And it's morally questionable whether someone has a right to say that person with whom they're entering a relationship can or can't sleep with someone else. Why does a person have the right to say what someone else can do with their body? By your logic, if it was generally accepted that marriage was permanent, you would need to get someone you wanted to marry to "allow" you to divorce in the future if you ever wanted to. Not a very appealing prospect.
Now I disagree with you. I can see your point, but you have ignored the aspect of knowingly and willingly agreeing to the condition of fidelity when entering a commited relationship. It is a clear expectation, unless explicitly excluded. If you enter a relationship knowing any oaths you take or promises you make are lies, that is unethical and deceptive. As for divorce, it is legally permissible under a wide variety of circumstances, but until a divorce intention has been stated or action taken, you remain morally bound by the promises of the marriage. And you DO have to get someone to allow you to divorce - that person is the legal representative of the state (aka "the judge"). What allows the judge to grant your petition are the laws in your jurisdiction. I will distinguish between religious marriage and legal marriage, though, and am not talking about vows that are applicable only to the religious ceremony.
Now I disagree with you. I can see your point, but you have ignored the aspect of knowingly and willingly agreeing to the condition of fidelity when entering a commited relationship. It is a clear expectation, unless explicitly excluded. If you enter a relationship knowing any oaths you take or promises you make are lies, that is unethical and deceptive. As for divorce, it is legally permissible under a wide variety of circumstances, but until a divorce intention has been stated or action taken, you remain morally bound by the promises of the marriage. And you DO have to get someone to allow you to divorce - that person is the legal representative of the state (aka "the judge"). What allows the judge to grant your petition are the laws in your jurisdiction. I will distinguish between religious marriage and legal marriage, though, and am not talking about vows that are applicable only to the religious ceremony.
People say "'till death do us part" all the time knowing they may well divorce.
Having to get a judge to grant a divorce is very different from having to get your spouse to agree to it.
I haven't ignored anything--I disagree that people automatically have to adhere to something they agree to. It depends on what it is that they agree to. If the terms of the relationship were that they woman would do whatever the man wanted, would the woman be bound to adhere to that? In my view, no, not even if she agreed to it completely voluntarily.
You're also overlooking the fact that most people who are unfaithful don't foresee they will be at the time they make those promises/oaths.
Your position seems to be: "If you make an agreement, then breaking that agreement is automatically wrong." I disagree with that.
Look, we'll just have to agree to disagree about this. Arguing about it is like arguing about abortion.
Last edited by Pi64; 03-05-2013 at 12:51 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If the relationship is no longer satisfactory then just find one which suits you better be it sexually or emotionally... I have always loved the "it was an accident" expression. 
