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many of the people in the recent discussions regarding the Friendzone, have stated the following:
1. Attempting to become a woman's boyfriend by first becoming a woman's friend never works.
2. It is ethical to perhaps try to win over a woman that you are already friends with, but unethical to become friends with a woman for the purpose of one day becoming her boyfriend.
In other words, the only moral and ethical action to take if you like a woman is to ask her out immediately. I have the following problems with this idea philosophically:
A. It presumes that a woman's judgement of you based on your asking her out and showing interest will be the correct judgement and that there are never any reasons why one may wish to as a person who happens to know them gradually demonstrate qualities over a time period. However, there are some people whose immediately apparent social demeanor, social status and appearance does not reveal the FULL PICTURE about who they truly are. Also, there can be sensible reasons for waiting. Let me give some examples:
A. You are a high school senior who has a crush on a young twenty something female teacher. Based on your status as a high school student and her as a professional, you would probably not be seen as dating material if you asked her out as a high school student!! Also, such a relationship would have many ethical and psychological and legal problems. Would it not make sense to get to know her, stay in touch and when you turn 18 and graduate, then ask her out?
B. You have wonderful qualities such as being a great volunteer, a leader in your church, a mentor relationship with someone who like a younger brother to you and have a brilliant understanding of certain subjects such as world politics and economics, but you have a certain quality that causes people to have trouble taking your seriously at first, even platonic friends. For instance, you may be socially awkward in terms of making short term impressions, you may have an odd accent, you may have an apparent disability. I know some people who because of social awkwardness or a disability are not taken seriously as coworkers or friends, yet when these two people spend much time around coworkers or people with similar interests that they excel in, they make great long time friends. It is highly unlikely that these people would be taken seriously if they ever asked anyone out cold, yet would make decent long term partners. So, why would it be unethical for such people to gradually gain respect of an individual of the opposite sex and then ask them out. Let us take a real life example: Stephen Hawking. He is world class brilliant, yet he has a very apparent disability. Many women would not take seriously a man with a very apparent disability who quickly asked them out. But some women might date a man with an apparent disability who was unusually brilliant or accomplished. Ergo, if a man who had an apparent disability felt attracted to a specific woman, and had qualities such as being unusually brilliant or accomplished, would it not be ethical for him to upon meeting a woman he liked to first become her friend for a week or so to demonstrate such qualities and then ask her out.
C. You do not resemble the person who you appear to be:
Examples:
A. You are a short Asian American tech guy who is attracted to a woman at your workplace who is into cool black guys who can dance and rap. Little does she know, that despite being short and Asian, you actually were a hip-hop champion and dance champion in college and a finalist on a reality show.
B. You are an African American Mcdonalds worker who is attracted to a well to do WASP female graduate student from Harvard in the line. From overhearing her conversation, she likes brilliant scientist types with great career potential. Little does she know, that you actually are brilliant and about to get a minority science research fellowship from the Gates foundation in neuroscience and are just working at Mcdonalds as a temporary gig to pay the bills.
C. You are an unemployed white guy who lives at home with his parents. You meet at some convention a beautiful savy businesswoman who loves dating and marrying great businessmen. Little does she know that you actually developed a startup that got sold to Google in 2004 for millions, but lost your money during the 2008 crash. You also have the contacts to start another startup, and have Steve Wozniak as your mentor, but to save money and time you are TEMPORARILY living at home with your parents.
Would it be ethical for the three men in the above scenarios, to become a women's friend for a week or so to demonstrate the complex truth about their lives and then ask such a woman out?
In other words, for some guys who meet a woman they are attracted to. The reason for not asking her out right away is not because they are dishonest or lack guts. It is because, in a few cases ( remember the movie Good Will Hunting or the Pursuit of Happyness), a guy's immediately apparent appearance, demeanor, or social status does not tell the true story about who they really are or whether they would in the long run be good boyfriend or husband material.
Location: Georgia, on the Florida line, right above Tallahassee
10,471 posts, read 15,827,481 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelOrear
Hello,
many of the people in the recent discussions regarding the Friendzone, have stated the following:
1. Attempting to become a woman's boyfriend by first becoming a woman's friend never works.
2. It is ethical to perhaps try to win over a woman that you are already friends with, but unethical to become friends with a woman for the purpose of one day becoming her boyfriend.
In other words, the only moral and ethical action to take if you like a woman is to ask her out immediately. I have the following problems with this idea philosophically:
A. It presumes that a woman's judgement of you based on your asking her out and showing interest will be the correct judgement and that there are never any reasons why one may wish to as a person who happens to know them gradually demonstrate qualities over a time period. However, there are some people whose immediately apparent social demeanor, social status and appearance does not reveal the FULL PICTURE about who they truly are. Also, there can be sensible reasons for waiting. Let me give some examples:
A. You are a high school senior who has a crush on a young twenty something female teacher. Based on your status as a high school student and her as a professional, you would probably not be seen as dating material if you asked her out as a high school student!! Also, such a relationship would have many ethical and psychological and legal problems. Would it not make sense to get to know her, stay in touch and when you turn 18 and graduate, then ask her out?
B. You have wonderful qualities such as being a great volunteer, a leader in your church, a mentor relationship with someone who like a younger brother to you and have a brilliant understanding of certain subjects such as world politics and economics, but you have a certain quality that causes people to have trouble taking your seriously at first, even platonic friends. For instance, you may be socially awkward in terms of making short term impressions, you may have an odd accent, you may have an apparent disability. I know some people who because of social awkwardness or a disability are not taken seriously as coworkers or friends, yet when these two people spend much time around coworkers or people with similar interests that they excel in, they make great long time friends. It is highly unlikely that these people would be taken seriously if they ever asked anyone out cold, yet would make decent long term partners. So, why would it be unethical for such people to gradually gain respect of an individual of the opposite sex and then ask them out. Let us take a real life example: Stephen Hawking. He is world class brilliant, yet he has a very apparent disability. Many women would not take seriously a man with a very apparent disability who quickly asked them out. But some women might date a man with an apparent disability who was unusually brilliant or accomplished. Ergo, if a man who had an apparent disability felt attracted to a specific woman, and had qualities such as being unusually brilliant or accomplished, would it not be ethical for him to upon meeting a woman he liked to first become her friend for a week or so to demonstrate such qualities and then ask her out.
C. You do not resemble the person who you appear to be:
Examples:
A. You are a short Asian American tech guy who is attracted to a woman at your workplace who is into cool black guys who can dance and rap. Little does she know, that despite being short and Asian, you actually were a hip-hop champion and dance champion in college and a finalist on a reality show.
B. You are an African American Mcdonalds worker who is attracted to a well to do WASP female graduate student from Harvard in the line. From overhearing her conversation, she likes brilliant scientist types with great career potential. Little does she know, that you actually are brilliant and about to get a minority science research fellowship from the Gates foundation in neuroscience and are just working at Mcdonalds as a temporary gig to pay the bills.
C. You are an unemployed white guy who lives at home with his parents. You meet at some convention a beautiful savy businesswoman who loves dating and marrying great businessmen. Little does she know that you actually developed a startup that got sold to Google in 2004 for millions, but lost your money during the 2008 crash. You also have the contacts to start another startup, and have Steve Wozniak as your mentor, but to save money and time you are TEMPORARILY living at home with your parents.
Would it be ethical for the three men in the above scenarios, to become a women's friend for a week or so to demonstrate the complex truth about their lives and then ask such a woman out?
In other words, for some guys who meet a woman they are attracted to. The reason for not asking her out right away is not because they are dishonest or lack guts. It is because, in a few cases ( remember the movie Good Will Hunting or the Pursuit of Happyness), a guy's immediately apparent appearance, demeanor, or social status does not tell the true story about who they really are or whether they would in the long run be good boyfriend or husband material.
I don't agree with points one or two. Too many variables, everyone has a unique set of factors that drive their relationship, be it friends or more than just friends. It's very difficult to apply a scenario that speaks for everyone. If you are looking for something long term you should be thinking in terms of getting to known someone and being their friend. You just don't want to wait forever before attempting to move things forward. That is typically how you get friend zoned.
So, what do you people think of the guys in the above described hypothetical scenarios. Can you understand why they might not get the dates they truly deserved if they asked out cold? What do you think of my thoughts?
age is always a factor, a wise man, will make a woman feel safe, that he is not a threat-many jerks and idiots out there- trust, honesty, and fun to be with, still reigns as a solid basis of any relationship....if that means friends first, then so be it...
a foolish man thinks he competes with every other guy in the world- he doesnt,,,he more has to compete with traits that a woman respects and looks for..most girls dont want to play the fool, or be used,,,well,,,most learn at some point,,
be who you are,,be genuine,,and if that isnt attracting the women, then take a good look at yourself,
and for gods sake ,,stop over analyzing....every woman is different with likes/dislikes...
and for gods sake ,,stop over analyzing....every woman is different with likes/dislikes...
Yes, once again we have a black-and-white thinker or autistic type trying to apply a mathematical formula to individual preferences and attractions that are indefinably complex and indefinitely varied.
Do you put this much effort into your job? I just can't understand constructing an outline for a post on CD about being "friendzoned". You are putting FAR too much thought into it.
It's really quite simple...if she is attracted to you, she'll date you. If she isn't but she likes your personality, she'll be your friend. If she doesn't like anything about you, she'll ditch you.
Oh, and nobody deserves to get a date. What kind of thinking is that???
The friendzone doesn't exist. I repeat, the friendzone does not exist.
It is bullsh*t. It's a fake hell created by people that feel they deserve love and affection for acting nice instead of being nice, and feel they are exempt from putting forth the effort to actually be attractive.
He/she either likes you, or they don't. Accept it, and quit acting like being friends is a bad thing.
Likely it is unethical for people to gradually gain respect of an individual of the opposite sex by befriending them and then ask them out because the friendship isn't genuine rather one with ulterior motives and deception by trying to garner favor to twist a person's decision into the desired one. To me this is akin to a gal knowingly putting up an outdated or false picture then conversing with a guy thinking when he meets her in person he'll have built a connection and would be willing to overlook her appearance.
My thoughts are that you're solely focusing on the gal's judgement of the guy when the guy's judgement of the gal is likely not as not a true picture of who she really is either. Guys approach based on immediate apparent appearance and perhaps demeanor and social status so to me it's tit for tat for a guy to be rejected based on those factors rather than try to curry favor with a gal he immediately judged and deemed himself deserving of.
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