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Read the thread. They're in counseling. She begged her husband years ago to go to counseling together, and he refused. Now that it's really over, suddenly he's talked her into last-ditch counseling.
You still seem to be missing the part about the OP trying for years to save her marriage. She certainly hasn't treated her marriage like a hook-up. She's stayed and endured what sounds like daily verbal and psychological abuse (as have her kids, I gather from other posts) for years, hoping to somehow turn things around in spite of her husband's refusal to try to rescue the marriage. You make some good points, but they're not relevant to this situation in this thread.
You're right; I was too hasty in generalizing, and insensitively included the OP. She has tried indeed, which makes her situation all the more tragic. Others have perhaps not been as tenacious. But the overall point is not that this or that individual was too hasty in giving up; rather, it's the cultural shift away from marriage as lifelong commitment to marriage as instrument of convenience. BTW I say this as a child-free atheist, not as a religious devotee or cheerleader for the reproductive trappings of traditional marriage.
You're right; I was too hasty in generalizing, and insensitively included the OP. She has tried indeed, which makes her situation all the more tragic. Others have perhaps not been as tenacious. But the overall point is not that this or that individual was too hasty in giving up; rather, it's the cultural shift away from marriage as lifelong commitment to marriage as instrument of convenience. BTW I say this as a child-free atheist, not as a religious devotee or cheerleader for the reproductive trappings of traditional marriage.
But a marriage only works when both people believe in it and are committed to it. Is JerZ just supposed to be miserable for the rest of her life until the sweet, sweet release of death? I don't think marriage or divorce should be taken lightly, but I also don't think that every relationship is forever.
The OP made open solicitation for advice. Hence, it's all posters' place to offer such advice, provided that it is sincere and honorable. Yet with all due respect, Lilac110, it is nobody's place to make assumptions about other people's lives... not mine, and not yours.
Divorce sucks. Divorce is a horror. Continuation of a marriage may not be pleasant either, but I am unapologetic about speaking from experience that terminating a marriage is a stunning setback in one's life.
We have an emerging culture that's treating marriages as if they were college-dorm hookups. They're not. Husbands or wives aren't commodities to be bought by the pound and discarded when no longer ripe. Yes, I deeply miss my ex-wife and am profoundly regretful that she left. There will never be another like her, whether fortune blesses or damns me, elevates or debases me. That is one relationship that could not endure. Do I believe that it is worthwhile to at least attempt to save other relationships? Yes, unabashedly I do. Do I believe that life partners belong together? Yes, I do - and I make no apologies for that. Are some marriages so noxious that terminating them is the only sensible step? Yes, there are. But wherein lies the greater risk: to disavow what one already has, or to keep salving a festering wound?
To all those people who have successfully rebuilt their lives after divorce, who have gone on to thrive and who have found their divorces to be a comparative success, I offer congratulations. I don't have a grudge, nor do I salivate with unsated envy. But you are the lucky ones. Not everyone shall be so lucky.
Divorce is only as horrible as the two parting spouses make it. My ex and I were adults about the whole thing. Therefore, ours was amicable and smooth. I'm not saying it was a pleasant experience. But it was not a horror.
You make this blanket statement about a culture of people treating marriage as if it was a college-dorm hook-up. That is exactly what I mean about you claiming to know what is best for other people. You have absolutely no grounds for saying something like that, because you are not in anyone else's marriage. You do not know what goes on behind closed doors. Your statement is all presumption on your part, and that is why it is so offensive.
I'll give you an example. My cousin married young. She was divorced less than a year later. Everyone was quick to pass judgment. Then they found out, years later, that her ex-husband started physically abusing her on their honeymoon. She did not tell others of this because of the shame that often accompanies domestic violence, and the judgment of people who get up there and say things like "you should have seen it coming" or "how did you miss this about him before you married?" Instead, she had to listen to commentary like yours about how life partners should stay together. Frankly, I'm surprised she didn't just tell the offending parties to shut the ever-loving fornication up, as my friends and family know I certainly would have if they dared to question my judgment about my own marriage and divorce.
I don't know a single couple who approached marriage like a college hook-up, and it is insulting and ridiculous of you to assume that of anyone you do not know, which includes society at large. VERY few people get married planning to divorce, and the vast majority of people who do divorce do not make the decision lightly. JerZ is certainly not approaching it flippantly.
To answer your question, the far greater risk is to keep salving a festering wound. I don't believe in any afterlife where I'm going to be rewarded for suffering in this one. Life is short, and no one should have to spend most of it in a loveless marriage. When wounds fester, sometimes you just have to amputate.
So, how far into the marriage before you came to the realization that this was not a good match?
The term "realization" implies that it was a bad match from the start. I can't see how that assumption can be made. Plenty of couples who were well-matched at the outset eventually end up ill-matched because of changes in themselves or their lives along the way. That's why so many previously happy couples divorce when a child dies.
The OP made open solicitation for advice. Hence, it's all posters' place to offer such advice, provided that it is sincere and honorable. Yet with all due respect, Lilac110, it is nobody's place to make assumptions about other people's lives... not mine, and not yours.
Divorce sucks. Divorce is a horror. Continuation of a marriage may not be pleasant either, but I am unapologetic about speaking from experience that terminating a marriage is a stunning setback in one's life.
We have an emerging culture that's treating marriages as if they were college-dorm hookups. They're not. Husbands or wives aren't commodities to be bought by the pound and discarded when no longer ripe. Yes, I deeply miss my ex-wife and am profoundly regretful that she left. There will never be another like her, whether fortune blesses or damns me, elevates or debases me. That is one relationship that could not endure. Do I believe that it is worthwhile to at least attempt to save other relationships? Yes, unabashedly I do. Do I believe that life partners belong together? Yes, I do - and I make no apologies for that. Are some marriages so noxious that terminating them is the only sensible step? Yes, there are. But wherein lies the greater risk: to disavow what one already has, or to keep salving a festering wound?
To all those people who have successfully rebuilt their lives after divorce, who have gone on to thrive and who have found their divorces to be a comparative success, I offer congratulations. I don't have a grudge, nor do I salivate with unsated envy. But you are the lucky ones. Not everyone shall be so lucky.
Seriously? Have you even read her posts? My husband and I have gone through hard times. But what she's describing, I'm really don't see how you can come back from that. When we have problems, we talk about it. We will argue it out and keep arguing and lose sleep over it until we hammer out an agreement. But we get there and there are certain lines we just don't cross. We name call in jest, but never during in an argument (this has never been a problem, name calling is the closest to endearments we get and always has been). We might have even yelled a few times, like the time my husband quit his job on the spot because he lost his temper with his boss. That's normal. How do you live with someone that is openly hostile towards you? How is that a marriage? I've never even seen this IRL, just on tv and people talk about it. I have a difficult time picturing it or even understanding it. The only people that have been openly hostile towards me, were my enemies. And she's living with him. You think she's wrong to reach her limit living with that? That's not remotely normal or okay or reasonable and she has been putting up with this for years. I think she's right if she stays or right if she goes. I'm shocked by anyone that would judge her for it.
I'd rather be alone for the rest of my life than have my husband blatantly disregard me and be openly hostile towards me. I've never put up with it for one day let alone a year or more.
So, how far into the marriage before you came to the realization that he was not a good match?
I think I knew my DH wasn't going to change (or I should say, change back to the person I'd been so sure he was), and that it wasn't due to stress, to me not being good enough, to having an infant in the house/having added work stress, etc. or to a number of other excuses, when my youngest son was fairly small, maybe two-ish. ETA: I guess the biggest factor is that at that time, I pretty much began to see that my husband didn't really love me or want to work on those problems. Whatever it was, that is definitely the time period when I remember there being a big shift.
Ruth, I tried to rep ya hon...but I am out of love for the next 24 hours. Same to you, Djuna, Moemi and LSJaun...tried to rep, out of love! I would like to rep everyone who has taken the time to answer my post. If you see a little love that was probably me. If I missed you today due to my 24 hours being up I will tag ya tomorrow. <3
The term "realization" implies that it was a bad match from the start. I can't see how that assumption can be made. Plenty of couples who were well-matched at the outset eventually end up ill-matched because of changes in themselves or their lives along the way. That's why so many previously happy couples divorce when a child dies.
We've had a bumpy road but we did a cross-country move, I had to quit moving (very traumatic for me, very bad), we have a special-needs child, lots happened that made both of us less than our optimal selves at times. But you're correct, I definitely didn't think from the start that we were a bad match. In fact I thought we were the perfect match, especially intellectually and humor-wise, as well as how I thought each of us viewed home, family and the like.
What you mentioned about a child dying -- I've heard some pretty bad statistics on parenting special needs children in the divorce regard, too. It's not specifically the stress and extra work, it's more that such a thing truly does bring out a person's basic self as you're too busy to hide it and because you really are forced to address some of life's biggest issues. I think that may all be part of this but that's a whole other can of worms, a looooooooong story.
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That's normal. How do you live with someone that is openly hostile towards you? How is that a marriage? I've never even seen this IRL, just on tv and people talk about it. I have a difficult time picturing it or even understanding it. The only people that have been openly hostile towards me, were my enemies. And she's living with him. You think she's wrong to reach her limit living with that? That's not remotely normal or okay or reasonable and she has been putting up with this for years. I think she's right if she stays or right if she goes. I'm shocked by anyone that would judge her for it. 
Same to you, Djuna, Moemi and LSJaun...tried to rep, out of love! I would like to rep everyone who has taken the time to answer my post. If you see a little love that was probably me. If I missed you today due to my 24 hours being up I will tag ya tomorrow. <3