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Old 06-18-2013, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Toronto
2,161 posts, read 2,258,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
How so? They still get the same visitation and have to pay the same child support. How is it limited?
Unmarried fathers have to prove paternity first. Men can't randomly ask for DNA tests if the mother refuses to cooperate. They have to prove they were in a relationship first. If you don't prove that much, you won't get paternity rights. I have a friend use this on a short lived romance with an abusive man. He never moved in and she didn't introduce him to anyone before they had already broken up. I doubt he cares about the child, he just wanted a way to access her. But still. There can be a lot of legal hoops to jump through for an unmarried father. And in some cases he won't have a leg to stand on.
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Old 06-18-2013, 02:58 PM
 
1,451 posts, read 1,513,974 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
I don't know - I think a man who has the opportunity to raise his kids and does not is the worst kind of human.....I do also know that the ones who do want custody or a significant role in their children's lives really have no legal rights to speak of if they weren't married to the mother.
Why don't they have legal rights? They can't get an attorney to help them pursue visitation/custody?
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:06 PM
 
526 posts, read 680,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
That is fantasy. Who is going to enforce them? In an above post I just relayed a couple of cases known to me. There are many other similar stories I don't know about personally.



If that is the case it is only because the men feel they have no real chance, no matter what the law says, the judges don't always enforce it.
You have to go to court to get a custody agreement just like people do when they get a divorce. It's no different, other than you aren't getting a divorce. People have trouble enforcing custody agreements, whether never married or divorced. My point is that there is no difference.

Whether you were married or not, the judge may or may not enforce it.
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Center of the universe
24,757 posts, read 32,953,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larkspur123 View Post
Why don't they have legal rights? They can't get an attorney to help them pursue visitation/custody?
The father is at a disadvantage from the beginning; he has to make all this effort to obtain his parental rights, while the mother's are never under question or threatened. And what if he can't afford an attorney?
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:09 PM
 
526 posts, read 680,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monemi View Post
Unmarried fathers have to prove paternity first. Men can't randomly ask for DNA tests if the mother refuses to cooperate. They have to prove they were in a relationship first. If you don't prove that much, you won't get paternity rights. I have a friend use this on a short lived romance with an abusive man. He never moved in and she didn't introduce him to anyone before they had already broken up. I doubt he cares about the child, he just wanted a way to access her. But still. There can be a lot of legal hoops to jump through for an unmarried father. And in some cases he won't have a leg to stand on.
This isn't true. You file a petition in the court for a paternity test. It's not that hard and yes, the mother has to comply with a court order.
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:13 PM
 
1,451 posts, read 1,513,974 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
The father is at a disadvantage from the beginning; he has to make all this effort to obtain his parental rights, while the mother's are never under question or threatened. And what if he can't afford an attorney?
Who says that the mother's rights are NEVER under question or threatened as you have phrased it?
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:14 PM
 
526 posts, read 680,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucario View Post
The father is at a disadvantage from the beginning; he has to make all this effort to obtain his parental rights, while the mother's are never under question or threatened. And what if he can't afford an attorney?
You can file the petition yourself. You don't need an attorney. A paternity petition is pretty straight forward. It will cost less than a divorce even if you get an attorney.
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:26 PM
 
Location: SNA=>PDX 2013
2,438 posts, read 2,823,795 times
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I think, if I had kids or wanted them, and got divorced, I'd ask for the set-up my cousin has. 50/50. One week with him, one week with me, they switch out on Sunday. That way, I have a week of free time w/o a kid like the Dad does to do whatever I want. Be it going out on dates, out with the girls, screwing the entire neighborhood of men. Whatevers.

But then again. I don't want children because for me, they are like weights dragging me to the bottom of the ocean.

However, most women I know that have main custody of their children (even though it's 50/50 legally), all they do is complain about how Dad is free to go gallivanting around while they watch the kid(s) every day except for weekends or every other weekends. So, poor Mom has to work hard, while Dad plays. In those situations, I really don't understand why it's not 50/50 if the court order is 50/50. I also think more mom's like to be with their kids and don't want to give them up as readily or maybe they're all more control freaks and don't trust Dad to take care of the kids (but then again, my Dad would feed us steaks and waffles when Mom wasn't home and they're married).

I too, know one man, who FOUGHT and WON for full custody of his kids. Granted, I think the courts made a good decision because the mom is a bit flaky.
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:44 PM
 
4,472 posts, read 5,138,323 times
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I think part of the issue is most men have greater difficulty finding a new woman if they have "baby momma drama". Another issue is the courts can award quite large amounts of money to the woman for child support that can result in a full quality of life step change down for the man.

A woman typically has a much easier time walking into a new relationship and a new duel income situation WHILE collecting child support so life is good and she can play with the kids while she has sex with her new man, so of course she could never imagine "abandoning" her children.

Men have to make much tougher decisions and sometimes it involves abandoning the kids, but remember mom had to first abandon dad before dad abandoned the kids (if the man abandoned mom for no reason then thoes men are looked down upon). Alot of men would abandon the kids once the mom abandoned them thats why the courts have gotten really aggresive in tracking men down, so the only way to do that now is to leave the nation and typically you have to go over seas as its pretty easy for the govt to track you in Canada.

This of course depends on the relative attractivness of the man and the woman in question, I guess its possible for the man (if he is exceptionally attractive) to find a new woman before the mom finds a new man but thats not typical. Also single men are more tolerant of single moms, where as single women are not so tolerate of men who have kids somewhere, depending on attractivness of course.

In all the cases I have seen the men are much worse off over all than the women, they may have more money but thats because they typically make more money to start with but the mom is generally doing alot better than she woudl have been had it just been a break up of a non marriage relationship because she is able to use the courts to get supplemental income (even if the divorce is her fault).

The US culture coddle "kids" WAY too long, "kids" are not even allowed to work until 16 I think it is. The artificial maturation period imposed on parents is extreme in the USA and it drives behavior.

There are obviously exceptions and deviations but this is what I have seen as being the norm.
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Old 06-18-2013, 03:53 PM
 
4,472 posts, read 5,138,323 times
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Another thing people might not realize is that moms get default treatment while men have to go to the court house, fill out all the paper work, pay the fees, find parking and time off for the whole 2 hrs the court house is open. All this stuff usually draggs on for months if not years. I had to serve my ex wife for debts she owed where I had to make her payments, I will have made 6 months or more of payments before I even see a trickle back of my money.

Low income, irresponsible people are the ones who win out because the courts will go after the deep pockets. It gets old having to drive over to my lawyers, filing motions, mailing stuff to the bankrupcy trust from my ex, etc etc.
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