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Old 12-05-2007, 08:21 PM
Location: NoVa
18,435 posts, read 26,922,749 times
Reputation: 19521


Originally Posted by sun View Post
Everyone has hostility about something or other, whether it's emotional or financial or physical etc...something in the marriage, family or workplace.
You said that you feel angry and violated because he still stares at you lovingly and desires you. That anger is the same form of hostility toward whatever or whomever anyone ever gets angry about. All people get mad at times about why and how bad things happen to them, it's normal and part of being human and having interpersonal conflicts.

You feel that you've been dealt a bad hand in life, I'm sure that most people feel that way too at times. Everyone has problems in their life that leads them to be angry and hostile about it.
You've had to endure great hardships in your life, within your own family, your marriage (which also affected the kids), and now through the realizations over time which led to your separation. Of course most people would feel anger and hostility for having lost so many years of their life to unhappiness and feelings of neglect, being disrespected, unloved and underappreciated. Anger is probably the emotion which would help to keep anyone from becoming too depressed about anything overwhelmingly negative that occurs in their life.
It seems that whenever people stop being friends they quickly become enemies. Divorce seems to be all about establishing just who the enemy is and expressing the hostility and reasons for the anger that causes it to happen in the first place.
What else turns friends and marriage partners into estranged spouses if it's not forms of anger and hostility?
Your divorce is far from being over, and his family and the children are involved and there's going to be lots of emotions over it for a long time to come. You have to deal with him, financially and otherwise, and all of your own problems dealing with a separate household too. There's bound to be more resentment, hostility & anger before all is said and done.
I guess that divorce is just part of the legal process of conflict resolution that's designed to keep the anger and hostility civilized and at a minimal level (and off the public streets! ).
Personal disappointment is just another well accepted fact of modern life.
Sun, I just don't think you are understanding me. I really don't. We all have emotions, anger is one of them, indeed. So is joy. Sadness.. pick one. There are so many.

He doesn't STILL stare at me, maybe he does. I have noticed it the one time. He did not want us to part. He felt it was ok to go on the way we were. He thought it was ok. Its not ok. You cannot treat people that way.

Sure, I feel like bad things have happened to me, but Sun, I am doing something about those things. I am not sitting here in my house collecting unemployment and being miserable. I just am not.

It feels like a lot of things happen to me, it does. But everything happens for a reason, we all know it.

A bad hand in life. I have a wonderful hand, and I am playing it, I have my children, Sun. I have experienced loss, the loss of my parents. The loss of what was to be my lifelong marriage to him.

But in it all, I walk ahead. This is why the Lord carried me. I couldn't do it. He held my hand, I needed his guidance. I have no idea the reasons for what things happened in what order they happened, or whyI could not be stronger so much longer, but all in time. In His time.

I feel like you want me to feel angry and hostile, while right now, I just don't. I can feel angry in a moment, but to hold onto things like that is not good. You cannot be healthy that way.

I am not establishing an enemy. He will always be there. He is always going to be the kids father, that part of him will always remain in my heart. It is who I am.

What else turns friends and marriage partners into estranged spouses if it's not forms of anger and hostility?

What else turns them into estranged spouses is the mistreatment. The knowing that that person will not change, and will only continue to hurt you, to kill you more and more, until you are what you have believed you have been. Nothing. I knew that I could not continue that life. I don't have to be angry and hostile to know that, or to move towards a positive life. I just don't. One person can only take so much for so long.

My children also did not need to continue that life. They see their father, they see their fathers family. Fine! Thats just fine. I don't keep them from one another, never have I.

Now, his mother has played a huge role in our lives. married and separated. She has disowned us, our children, if he didn't play her game.

Yes, I have to deal with him, and I do it on almost a daily basis.

One does not have to be angry and hostile in order to be separated/divorced. They just don't. I think you feel they do, or you feel I do, or I should, I don't know. Of course, he does things that make me mad, this goes in with your everyday, things someone can do to make you mad category.

Other people do that too. I don't have to make it my life though. Now, being broken hearted over my son, in his youthful wisdom, the sadness i feel for him at what has been done to him, to make him feel like an inferior person... My heart was broken, for my son. I did not get angry over it, at my husband, no, my heart broke for my son.

Should I get mad? What will it do? Will it make it better? No. Will my husband likely ever know what he has done to us, really? i don't think he will. At this point, I cannot harp on that. I cannot live in that world.

If he can figure out what he did and make things better for himself, and for the kids, I will be happy for him. We cannot turn back the clocks. The things that were done cannot be undone by saying I was stressed out. Its your fault. not even by saying you are sorry. The things that were done were done. Black and white, plain and simple. They were done, its done, its over.

High school sweetheart he was, gentle caring and loving husband, he was not. SO, I walk on. Not angrily, not bitter. I just walk on.
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Old 12-05-2007, 08:30 PM
Location: NoVa
18,435 posts, read 26,922,749 times
Reputation: 19521
I suppose it is time for bed for me. You guys can feel free to join me tomorrow!

Tomorow is my halfday, taking the kids to the therapist.

My pilot went out in the living room, so I will have to see about getting that back on. Cold here, have the upstairs unit and the unit in the kitchen still going. Don't know what happened there.

My eyes grow heavy, the day was filled with emotions. We have our ups and our downs, and our sideways days, I suppose.

Today my heart was heavy. It was heavy with my daughter and her growing amount of stress she carries in what she does with his stay strong mentality, my son as well. She has meltdowns, and really, I don't blame her. It is what she has to do, to get it out. Hopefully the therapist can help her a bit with that.

And as the weeks go by, my son grows up, and up and up. And he says things that just make me hurt for him, but his openness to say these things, I think, is a step in the right direction.

I love those kids bigger than the world is round. My heart has been void in a marital aspect, but never when it comes to them, not ever.

My heart is filled, it runs over.
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Old 12-05-2007, 11:18 PM
Location: Central Connecticut
683 posts, read 1,876,539 times
Reputation: 443
What else turns them into estranged spouses is the mistreatment.
Any spouse who feels angry enough about their mistreatment probably should consider becoming estranged, but most people need to get pretty upset about it first.

I know that you're a very mellow person and I hope that you have a great day today!

Last edited by sun; 12-05-2007 at 11:56 PM..
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Old 12-05-2007, 11:53 PM
Location: Seek Jesus while He can still be found!
2,977 posts, read 5,558,695 times
Reputation: 7738
Default And now a word from our sponsers.....

Okay Robyn, by now hopefully you know that I am on your side and rooting for you - http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd13/Debzpicks/cid_68FB4EEF-A23B-43DD-A1FE-E142AD6.gif (broken link)

But that is not to say that I always agree with ALL the advice or things said on this thread. I appreciate other people points of view and feel in my heart that Sun is honestly trying to be helpful and share his insight from a different perspective than some others wonderful posters on here . I can understand your not agreeing with his perspective, but sometimes he says things that I too have thought, but was afraid to say.

You are posting your life story on a public forum for all to read . Not everyone reading this thread is on your side and many readers will not even take the time to post for various reasons (one being fear of you or your supporters not liking what they have to say). I myself have held back on several occasions when I was afraid of how you would take what I said and I consider myself a HUGE supporter of yours !!

With that said Robyn , you have INDEED come a long ways (baby ), in a very short amount of time and have much to be proud of !! We all have CRITICS and other people in our lives who we do not see eye to eye with. Each of us must learn how to be the BEST that we can be and each of us have areas that need improvement (Lord knows I've got more than I care 2 mention !). I believe that God uses ALL things (good & bad) to help us become better persons.

My prayer for you in 2008 is : to get back to walking each morning, less time on CDF, more time enjoying your wonderful children and home, and back to church on a regular basis so that next year you will have a much larger circle of friends to share the holidays with !!! I also pray that you are able to find a better job with WAY more $$$$ (LOL)!

Blessings and love from your forever CDF friend,


For those that don't wander far from Robyn's thread, I bring you some of the BEST of CHRISTmas /Holiday 'moties !!!!
http://bestsmileys.com/christmas1/9.gif (broken link)

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h114/cordova_diana/ththCopy_of_snowmen.gif (broken link)

http://bestsmileys.com/christmas4/22.gif (broken link) and I throw this last one in for all you cat lovers out there:

Last edited by HDL; 12-06-2007 at 12:12 AM.. Reason: Had 2 leave out some milk and cookies for Santa (cuz he likes REP cookies 2) LOL!!!
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Old 12-06-2007, 05:27 AM
Location: NoVa
18,435 posts, read 26,922,749 times
Reputation: 19521
Default Good Morning and

No one should be afraid to say what they think here.

I know that Sun is from a different time than I am. His posts go from way back. Sun knows me from the religion forum, he grew to know my situation there, and he followed it here.

I believe that Sun is in a relationship like mine, before mine went so terribly wrong. I never throw hatrid his way.

He has always asked me, if he was your high school sweet heart, cant this be saved, can't you work on this? I am with my sweet heart from gforever.

Now I know I don't know his exact wording.

I am not disagreeing with Sun. I am only posing how I feel. If how I feel differs with how Sun may think I may feel, thats fine. We are 2 different individuals living 2 different lives.

I think, whether we realize it or not, Sun has a lot of romantasicm in him. I think he, like so many of my friends, before they knew what happened to me, held out for that last hope, that last glimmer.

Maybe J looking at me that last night could have sparked something in me, maybe Sun feels, I dont know. People hope for the best in life for others, mostly.

He mentions my hardships, my hardships now, and my hardships to come. For me, a bit of read between the lines bit of information.

Never do I read a post of Suns without putting much thought into it. I really have to dig into his post and think about things. He makes me really put my thought process into gear.

Whether he, or anyone else knows this or not, his posts help me a lot. I must sit here and read into them, like with a fine tooth comb. I must take them in, understand them. They make me think.

Surely, he says, I remember the good times. So, I sit here and I try to remember them. I can't. It is so sad to say that. That is something that also hurts my heart. To have been with a man for 16 years, and to try and remember good times, and not be able to.

How can you be with someone for so long, and something really good just not stick out? And it is not that I am not allowing it. I am not doing that. I thought I thought I thought. All of the insults flooded in. All of the you're not good enough, the you wouldn't do it anyways. All of the seeing him mistreating my son.

Where are the good times? We went to cookouts at his friends house. I had a good time, with the women there, because he was no where near, he was with the men, hanging out, and I was with women, I didn't even know.

Holidays, strained, because we had to be perfect infront of his family, not a hair out of place, our clothes perfect, on our best behavior. Little soldiers.

When we would go to my family get together, not good either, he would get drunk, or he would not be around them, or he would talk down to us. Not good times.

My day was not good, can we talk, whatever. Whatever. My life. Whatever. His life, naps and video games.

I know some people want to see the good in everyone, and deep down, there is good in people, I know there is, I know. It just was not exibited. When my father died, he did not console me, he was not there for me. At the funeral, it was just another day. He had to miss work, and be among my family. Who hugged me and consoled me? D. Aww Sweetie, I am so sorry. I know your Dad meant the world to you. I am so so sorry. Is there anything I can do for you? Anything you need?

Those words should have come from J. But they didn't. They didn't! No, he was inconvenienced and bothered by the people at the house.

Right now I don't feel anger. I feel hurt. I feel hurt right now, because I think of the loss of my Dad, and I go back to then, and I go back to what he should have done, and how he should have been.

Sure we were young, all of us. But I was a mother. I had a child almost a year old. We were all in the same school. I was the youngest of the three of us. I was his 'soulmate'

He was not there for me. Even after then, he wasn't. When I was so torn up over the loss of my father, he couldn't tell, he didn't know. I was 21 and he was 22. I had a son, I cared for him so well, my heart. I cared for my Grandmother. I was but an existence for his purpose, that is all.

Finally after 4 years of engagement we married. 4 years. Something held me back those years, I know it did. Then I am pregnant with my daughter, and he wants me to dispose of her like yesterdays trash.

NO! You embrace your wife, you tell her you love her, you wrap your arms around her and put your hand on her stomach. We are having a baby.

No, I get, what are you going to do about it. Good times. I embrace the good times. Next comes the cat killings. Also good times. Good memories.

I can't find them. I look for them, I search. Skip to 7 months ago, maybe we just need a drastic change.... maybe we need to get away from here. Longer than 7 months really.

I prayed for years that he would change, after him doing all the things he did, taking the tires off of my car in the druken rage, and trying to take off with the kids, putting my tires in the back of his truck. That was the day he was to leave,. It was the day we decided.

That was it. But it wasn't. My will was not there, my strength. My mother had passed only less than a year before then. Not good times.

The time he had my nine year old son move the car because he was drunk, and the car was wrecked, the windshield caving in... you just dont do that...you dont!

Where are the good memories? I cannot find them, I am searching, I go back to the beginning. The day in the hall at school.

He says you have something right there...on my lip, I reach to my lip to see what he is talking about, he says I will get it, and he reaches in and kisses me. That was our first kiss. It was in high school that was good.

But my father saw him, the person he was, the person he is. My father did not want me with him. But I was placed with him for a season, for my children.

I endured the things I did for a reason, my children, my Salvation. In those years, I gave my heart to the Lord Jesus Christ, a Lifetime.

Everyone has their own personal opinion here, and they can feel free to voice it, I am open to everyone. never once did I down Sun, not once. Only let him know how I felt in response to the things he said.

He had statements and questions that made me look into my life. My life made up of the Season, Reason, and Lifetime. Jim was part of all of that, and I suppose, that is the good. Right now, that is the good. If I can figure anything else, I will let you know.

Thank you Sun, for allowing me a trip into my past, you always make me evaluate things. HDL, I know you want things to be the best for people, and I know you are on my side.

I also know you cannot get away from CD...so dont try and take me with you!

It's too cold to walk! I will be in church this Sunday.

My love to all of you.

Last edited by Pikantari; 12-06-2007 at 05:57 AM..
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Old 12-06-2007, 05:40 AM
Location: NoVa
18,435 posts, read 26,922,749 times
Reputation: 19521
Originally Posted by sun View Post
Any spouse who feels angry enough about their mistreatment probably should consider becoming estranged, but most people need to get pretty upset about it first.

I know that you're a very mellow person and I hope that you have a great day today!
I am a pretty mellow person, but Sun, the Lord came to me during those summer months, I was not angered, I was opened up, and allowed to see my life as it was, and I was given the strength to follow a path that only I could choose, it was open only to me.

He guided me, not to leave my husband, but to see what was happening, and to give me the strength and wisdom to approach my life as it was happening, and I did that, and I tried. J thought nothing was wrong, he would love me forever. But he could not ever change.

Still I walked, I walked along, the Lord holding my hand in all of his Majesty. My eyes were opened to what they needed to see. My strength grew within me.

The bucket of emotions full of hurt and pain that was overflowing was allowed to empty. I was allowed to understand. I was given a chance for the bucket to start to refill, if you will, with eyes wide open.

And that is what happened. It emptied on my walks, and in my homelife, it refilled, with more hurt and pain. I saw what he was doing to me, and what he had done to me.

I was hurt. I knew that the Lord had been carrying me all of these years, I finally realized it. How else did I make it through? How else?

Today is going to be tough. I will have to talk to the kids therapist about the separation, and yes, it will be rough.

One good thing here. My kids may have their emotions bundled, and they may spurt out here and there, but just like me, they are able to see, and allow that bucket to empty.

They are allowed to be happy. They are happy here with me, and they are happy when they are with their Dad.

With us together, they didn't have that. I was their protector, and they did not live a childs life. Now, they do, for the most part.

I am sad sitting here typing this, because it took me so long. But I think that things happen with time, and we see things in time, and the Lord does not give us any more than we can handle. Finally one day, I got to that point , I suppose where there was getting ready to be one more thing..... and he knew i wouldn't be able to handle it.

I walk along. One foot infront of the other. Some days there are tears, but there is laughter. There is laughter.
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Old 12-06-2007, 05:48 AM
Location: NoVa
18,435 posts, read 26,922,749 times
Reputation: 19521
Now, you guys get in here and talk dag on it! I miss you!

http://bestsmileys.com/hello/5.gif (broken link) I am still here, drinking out of my Tink cup, and the
coffee is good. Life is good! it's all good!
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Old 12-06-2007, 05:57 AM
Location: In the sunshine on a ship with a plank
3,413 posts, read 7,536,047 times
Reputation: 2199
Sun, I'm sure that no matter how long or deep your relationship may be, if your spouse got mad at you and as a control measure attempted to have you committed for a mental health evaluation- simply because you were wanting to see your family- that you too would lose something very important inside of yourself that is necessary for maintaining that relationship.

I know nothing of your age or situation. But as a woman who is the same age as Robyn, I can tell you that any trust I had in my partner would be irretrievably shattered if he pulled a stunt like that without a fair and valid reason.

From what Robyn has written these past months we know:

1- Robyn has been alienated from her family
2- J has stolen household money for his own uses and left Robyn to cover expenses on her own.

3- J has been abusive and even murderous to animals
4- J has been abusive and cruel to his children
5- J has treated Robyn as if she is a possesion rather than a human being and partner.

That's only five examples of his inability to have a true partnership/respectful relationship. And I did not even include the attempt to commit Robyn this summer. An attempt that resulted in medical professionals and law enforcement seeing through J's motives.

He is not a good person. I would not want my sister, my friend, my mother or anyone else I care about to be in a relationship with someone like him.

Robyn owes us no explanations- she did the right thing by extracting herself and her children from that emotionally, mentally, spiritually and physically abusive situation.
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Old 12-06-2007, 06:07 AM
Location: NoVa
18,435 posts, read 26,922,749 times
Reputation: 19521
You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Pirate Girl again.

Thank you PG.

Ya know, in my whole heart, I know I did the right thing, and of course it hurts, but I move on. One day, everything will be just fine. Sometimes I say, everything is ok, just not today, and sure, it happens.

There are other days, when I am just as happy as a dragonfly..... as a dragonfly circling my very being.

Getting dressed for work now..... I owe I owe...LOL See, I can laugh.

But Pirate Girl is right, things could not stay as they were, tehy would have only escalated, and you cannot go back from the loss of trust like that, you can't. It even now, even now, I cannot trust him.
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Old 12-06-2007, 06:10 AM
Location: In the sunshine on a ship with a plank
3,413 posts, read 7,536,047 times
Reputation: 2199
And I need to add this- I was in a similar relationship for seven years. However, the abuse I suffered did not begin to touch what Robyn went through.

But there was so much of me that was lost. My self esteem, my sense of worth, my sense of reason. It was a dark place that I never ever want to visit again. It was a horrible codependent situation that was scary and stifling.

Climbing out of that was the hardest thing I ever had to do. It started out as a two steps forward, one step back scenario. I finally learned that surrounding myself with people who truly supported me- people who really wanted to see me WHOLE again- was the only way I could escape the cycle that had become normal for me.

It was not a quick process, but once I was committed to it, things improved consistently. I had to learn to tune out folks who tried to make me question my choices and the value I placed upon myself as a worthy person. Every time someone questioned my decision to leave made me feel the need to justify that choice. And I learned that in doing so, I was allowing that cycle of abuse to continue.

I'm not sure what your motives are- they may be righteous or they may be sinister. But with all due respect, if you have not walked a mile in Robyn's shoes- if you have been in a solid, healthy committed relationship and never experienced the trauma that she has, you might need to consider that playing devil's advocate in this instance is not the right thing.
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