Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I definitely do NOT think that little girls are socialized from a young age to be independent.
Then where does the repeated proclamation from woman after woman about being 'independent' come from?
Doesn't society and family instill this value in young girls?
I would guess that 80% ish of online dating profiles of woman state, "I am an independent woman" or some variation... they must get the idea from somewhere....
I think you are generalizing here, and you may not understand how some people view as independence vs 'being mannish'.
Being independent to me is being able to provide for yourself. And honestly, if a woman is proud of herself for achieving such adult status, ok. But being independent doesn't do much IMO. It is part of being an adult human being. It is kind of like a guy that claims to be 'nice'. We all know that EVERYONE is supposed to be nice. Well, everyone, including women, should be independent as well. Being nice or independent is really the extreme bare minimum, and if that is all you have to offer, then most likely that person is 'nexted'. and if someone isn't nice AND independent... NEXT. It's really the bare minimum.... in what I seek anyway.
I get what you're saying, but at the same time I think some women might describe themselves as independent to assure a potential partner that she's not a clingy dependent nightmare. She's not going to talk marriage on the second date. She doesn't care if you have a weekly poker night with your friends. She thinks that going to Vegas with your brother is a great idea. That sort of thing.
I get what you're saying, but at the same time I think some women might describe themselves as independent to assure a potential partner that she's not a clingy dependent nightmare. She's not going to talk marriage on the second date. She doesn't care if you have a weekly poker night with your friends. She thinks that going to Vegas with your brother is a great idea. That sort of thing.
Again, different viewpoint... I view what you describe here as... a mentally healthy individual.
IMO, independence has nothing to do with the bolded.
I honestly am not angry. I enjoy the company of men over women. I love men, really have very few complaints about a majority of them (mostly because I understand their line of thinking-due to the fact I was raised mostly by my father and spent a lot of time around my brother and other men). I work hard and am in grad school, so I play hard on the weekends. I work in a button-up corporate environment-which is not conducive to the type of person I am-so when Friday night rolls around I let loose. I don't label myself "independent", I have a good job (work 50 hours a week), I am also in grad school full time, I play sports and I own my own home. Granted, these things will come up in any normal conversation about what I do, how I spend my free time etc.
Example: I love to be the provider in my relationships and I think that might be my downfall. I can't tell you how many guys have told me, when I offered to buy them a drink or pay for dinner or help them change their oil on their car, it made them uncomfortable or feel awkward. It's just what I have always done, so I really don't know any different.
Why does a professional, educated woman such as yourself drink like a sailor and curse alot? It seems like you are trying to prove something, which is likely why guys arent attracted to you once you start speaking. It's pretty unbecoming behavior.
Why does a professional, educated woman such as yourself drink like a sailor and curse alot? It seems like you are trying to prove something, which is likely why guys arent attracted to you once you start speaking. It's pretty unbecoming behavior.
I think many men associated "independent women" with "shrewish angry feminist."
Quote:
Originally Posted by jillabean
For example (and just a little thing to illustrate what I mean)... a lightbulb goes out in the hallway of your apartment. Yes, you can change the lightbulb in the hallway if you stand on a ladder--but why not ask your boyfriend to do it and thank him afterwards saying, "I love how you are here to help me." Or if your boyfriend sees it and offers to replace it, let him and thank him for taking care of you. Don't say, "I can do it," grab a ladder, and push him out of the way. He's not stupid, he knows you can really do it if you need too--but he wants to take care of you and show his love. If you take that away, I think he feels unwanted. It's just little things... and maybe hokey too. But I think it goes a long way to letting men show their love for you and feeling wanted.
Oh my god, every guy I've ever dated would have mocked the hell out of me if I played that kind of act. I'm an engineer, I have better spatial reasoning skills than most people, and I'm the one who assembles stuff, fixes the broken things around the house, etc.
Why on earth should I live with a dark hallway until a boyfriend can find the time to come over and change a lightbulb?
I'm all for thanking the BF for taking care of me, but in my mind, that sort of acknowledgement is reserved for things like "Thank you for coming over at 3 am to take me to the ER when I had horrible food poisoning" or "thank you for helping me change my bandages after I had knee surgery", not "thank you for performing a task for me that an 8 year old child is capable of doing."
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa
I just never really considered self-sufficiency to be masculine OR feminine...just part of being a reasonably well-adjusted human.
THIS. I love grown-ups. I love dating grown-ups. I love men who want to date grown-ups.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa
I definitely do NOT think that little girls are socialized from a young age to be independent.
Agree. There are studies to back this up -- I can dig some up if requested, but I'm not near that research currently. But the gist of it was... if a young girl-child and a young-boy child were trying to perform the same task, the boy would be encouraged to complete the task on his own and praised for being a big girl. The girl would get a "oh, here, honey, let me help you with that!" reaction.
Oh my god, every guy I've ever dated would have mocked the hell out of me if I played that kind of act. I'm an engineer, I have better spatial reasoning skills than most people, and I'm the one who assembles stuff, fixes the broken things around the house, etc.
Why on earth should I live with a dark hallway until a boyfriend can find the time to come over and change a lightbulb?
I'm all for thanking the BF for taking care of me, but in my mind, that sort of acknowledgement is reserved for things like "Thank you for coming over at 3 am to take me to the ER when I had horrible food poisoning" or "thank you for helping me change my bandages after I had knee surgery", not "thank you for performing a task for me that an 8 year old child is capable of doing."
I was just using it as an example of letting a man do things for you if he wants to. I was just saying if you happened to turn it on and pop the bulb went out and your boyfriend said he'd get it. Let him without making a big scene about how independent you are, dragging out a step ladder and the whole bit when he can just reach up and change it or something. That's all I was saying. Men like to help and do things for the women they love. If you don't let them help you they might wonder if you even want them around. And of course change the darn bulb if you are home alone and it goes out.
EDIT: And of course this changes if you are an engineer... just like it would if you were a nurse and he was a home improvement contractor... or if you were a home improvement contractor and he was a nurse. I am just saying let him do things for you. I just thought of lightbulbs because I can't reach the ones in my hallway without standing tippy toe on a ladder. I hate it. Then again, I hate standing on ladders in general (especially tippy toe).
Last edited by jillabean; 08-02-2013 at 12:20 PM..
Then where does the repeated proclamation from woman after woman about being 'independent' come from?
Doesn't society and family instill this value in young girls?
I would guess that 80% ish of online dating profiles of woman state, "I am an independent woman" or some variation... they must get the idea from somewhere....
No. Society/childrearing is still way behind economic and employment realities. There are still subtle messages that men are the providers and women are their help-mates, or simply decorations. That's why you still see a lot of women in dead-end jobs, rather than working hard in school and college to get into lucrative careers.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
