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Hahha. I think the OP is probably some other forum member who decided to open this topic to continue a topic that got closed (involving paternity fraud) but he also reshaped it to make it different and avoid its closure. I wonder how long will it last before it turns into another session of endless discussion that gets closed. So far, so good, but it's probably heading there
To clear up something on the other thread - I didn't see your post that addressed the points I raised until this morning. I missed it last night - and the reason that I left the discussion and came back was because I went out last night and then came back. I didn't read all the pages I had missed.
To be honest, if a post is too long - I often don't read it. This is entertainment for me - not heavy reading.
I still disagree with you on mandatory paternity testing - but like I said - it's not because I'm personally against it - it's because I don't think it's possible to enforce. And I know you are very passionate about it - but are you also passionate about men that father children with other women outside of their marriage and don't tell their wives about it? Or is that okay with you? Personally, I think there are some crappy people out there of both genders. I'm just glad I've been able to avoid them.
To clear up something on the other thread - I didn't see your post that addressed the points I raised until this morning. I missed it last night - and the reason that I left the discussion and came back was because I went out last night and then came back. I didn't read all the pages I had missed.
To be honest, if a post is too long - I often don't read it. This is entertainment for me - not heavy reading.
I still disagree with you on mandatory paternity testing - but like I said - it's not because I'm personally against it - it's because I don't think it's possible to enforce. And I know you are very passionate about it - but are you also passionate about men that father children with other women outside of their marriage and don't tell their wives about it? Or is that okay with you? Personally, I think there are some crappy people out there of both genders. I'm just glad I've been able to avoid them.
Sounds fair, I'll write shorter ones in the future. I also think that medieval practices of establishing the supposed biological connection (paternity) are just unacceptable to any sane guy. If the society will bash me as a consequence of being a victim of something so terrible, I'll do my best to stop being in such position, ever. This means mandatory testing of each child.
Legislation is preoccupied with catering to women while still trying to throw as many obligations out of the taxpayers' money because the state really turned into one big "daddy" for many single mother families out there and it's really hard to expand those funds without enraging everyone because people realize that those funds are abused and that they are forced to fund someone else's "choices" because the political ideology wants everyone to fund it. Thus cuckolded fathers are the collateral damage, because the state wants to write off as many children out of their obligation and oblige any man instead.
The law says you'll end up in prison for many years if you do the testing thus they use shaming tactics as well aside from all the legal traps. But there's a completely safe option for the men - they'll simply buy kits, take samples and send them anonymously and do the payment, then review the results from their own safety. No risk of legal sanctions at all. This is why people are assaulting those services and do everything to stop men from having any option to deal with it. People like you play the role in shaming instead of helping your future sons to deal with this serious issue.
This is unacceptable for any sane guy and since they'll have their mouth shut they'll have to resort to this kind of testing. Spousal approval is thus unnecessary.
Sounds fair, I'll write shorter ones in the future.
I also think that medieval practices of establishing the supposed biological connection (paternity) are just unacceptable to any sane guy. And legislation is preoccupied with catering to women while still trying to throw as many obligations out of the taxpayers' money because the state really turned into one big "daddy" for many families out there and it's really hard to expand those funds without enraging everyone because people realize that those funds are abused and that they are forced to fund someone else's "choices" because the political ideology wants everyone to fund it. Thus cuckolded fathers are the collateral damage, because the state wants to write off as many children out of their obligation and oblige any man instead.
I disagree - but that's okay. I think that it's not the government's role to police our personal lives. But that's just my opinion. You are free to have a different one. And you are free to get a paternity test for your children and you are free to get a prenup. You are free to do anything you want to in your relationship within the confines of the law. It doesn't affect me at all.
30% of men pay child support for children that aren't theirs? I'd like to see the data on that. Also in most states if you're married it doesn't matter what a test says you're the child's parent, and you will pay support in the event of a divorce. How about this don't get married until you are with someone you can trust.
30% of men pay child support for children that aren't theirs? I'd like to see the data on that. Also in most states if you're married it doesn't matter what a test says you're the child's parent, and you will pay support in the event of a divorce. How about this don't get married until you are with someone you can trust.
That's because it isn't true. At all. But some people don't like facts to get in the way of their opinions.
I disagree - but that's okay. I think that it's not the government's role to police our personal lives. But that's just my opinion. You are free to have a different one. And you are free to get a paternity test for your children and you are free to get a prenup. You are free to do anything you want to in your relationship within the confines of the law. It doesn't affect me at all.
I find this "policing part" as a part of the topic because the whole prenup and paternity testing is needed to stop or limit the state's interventions anyways.
Here's the deal. Government literally makes it a better deal to many poor families to have single mothers instead of having two-parent household (or at least an official two-parent household since other parent is around). Many couples thus abuse it and obtain access to food stamps, healthcare benefits, free education for the single mom, government subsidizes childcare for the child because it has a working mother, things that it wouldn't do if the couple was officially married. Housing projects generally turned into single-mom housing projects. This is ridiculous knowing that their boyfriends are always around.
This means the system caters to "single mom" lifestyle and mothers are prone to abuse this. Thus they get tired of the guy and find another one. State is there to be the "daddy". State also polices people to enforce certain laws that are insulting everyone's logic when it comes to many issues involving family, paternity fraud is just one of them.
My point is that guys are legally in impossible position and they simply cannot be part of family life if they contest paternity or if they simply want to do the routine test. Reasons are displayed in attitudes to paternity testing in general. But they cannot do it without mother's approval, yet the mother can force them to do the testing if they deny it anyways, thus they have the legal option to: 1. accept that parenity doesn't matter and that they may raise a child that isn't their own, they should never know 2. demand paternity test and have the disruption in family, resulting with them getting cast out since mother gets custody on default even if they are biological parent, all because they wanted to do the routine test 3. enter direct conflict and demand the court to do the testing, effectively alienating themselves from their potentially biological child because mother will do everything to alienate them and make them into a paycheck, effectively the option 2
Alternative is to break the law and do it without any consequences by:
- buying paternity kit available at their local drug store (or travel/order one of those)
- sending samples anonymously and doing everything in discretion so that the mother doesn't even know
- review the results that are encrypted and available only to people who did the test, from their home's safety, in the same manner like they surf any other web page
Doing it this way, it's a safe way to break the injust laws and practices. Mothers will never know, state can never punish you because anyone could send any samples instead and it often involves testing far away. And men will have the peace of mind. Large numbers of men are "breaking the law" already.
This reminds me of illegal abortions in so many ways. The practice was illegal but widespread. When it got legalized nothing changed much. It was only made safer for the women who did the abortions and it stopped the corrupt, gray market that existed at the time. Mandatory paternity testing at birth instead of "assumption" of paternity should have happened long ago. Medieval laws on determining paternity are just not acceptable to any reasonable man, especially in this kind of legislation. It's just not an option. And if there was any sense of justice, women would've fought against current law practices actively since most of them have nothing to hide. Men are literally shamed and it's impossible to change those laws due to atmosphere present in this world - thus the secrecy and anonymous testing will continue to be more and more widespread.
Why would an unnecessary, voluntary, non-medical procedure be mandatory at birth? if you want a paternity test, pay for it yourself. the taxpayers don't have to fork the bill for your relationship insecurities.
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