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For a lot of men, attractiveness, kindness and a nurturing attitude trumps education, career status, etc. Married couples who are at the same "level" typically have met in college or at a job early on in their careers. (That is why they are usually close together in age as well.) Over the age of 35/40 or so, things change and men care a lot less about finding their "equal" regarding age and career status - just ask any 40 year old never-married professional woman.
Makes no difference really. It's what people do and people have always preferred to be equally yoked. This is nothing new. Why would a successful, educated man choose a hot waitress over a hot succesful, educated woman? Most don't and won't. As far as middle-aged people go, who want to be married and aren't, well there are other issues going on there.
No, what I said was "...men typically value looks over class and will happily date a gorgeous waitress."
Why are you so hostile? I don't understand where this rude attitude of yours is coming from, I thought we were just having a discussion. If it makes you feel better, I am certainly not "gorgeous" so I'm not pumping myself up here.
Hostile? Hey, I don't know what your problem is, but just because a person disagrees with you doesn't mean they're out to get you. Geesh.
Its not that men don't respect women's achievements, they just don't as a general rule pre-qualify or disqualify women based on their relative success or lack thereof in the career arena. Note the nuance.
fair enough, but i never said it was about respect. i thought i was clear that it was simply about what qualities the other person brings to the table as a mate. Career women lose a lot of those qualities.
Quote:
I get the serious impression sometimes that women mistakenly hold the assumption that what impresses them is what impresses men. That it would be any other way is hard to grasp conceptually.
agreed
this also explains why there are so many GTL douchebags out there. It's a reflection of what they want from a woman.
Waitresses generally don't get married to CEOs, though. He'll screw her, but he won't marry her.
That's how rich heirs reason, not rich as self-established men. Check out numerous examples, almost no self-established company owner married a rich woman, many married smart and established women but with a regular job, and a decent number married their maids, secretaries, even their workers from cafeteria or their workers' friends. They might not marry the waitress due to her personality, not the money.
Reason why poor or simply non-successful men don't marry wealthy heiresses or successful women is not due to men being picky, it's solely related to how women reason and even if they want to present themselves as "open minded" - their gestures and general behavior will drive all other people away. Personal experience.
It's not either about history, since this behavior is solely the product of later 19th and the 20th century. You can quote this freely.
@OP:
If I'd divide the usual groups into "levels", there would be four:
1. rich heirs and self-made company owners and other successful professionals
2. well-paid jobs in government, big corporations and administration in general, NGOs, NPOs, etc
3. the average workers and your regular occupations, plus students
4. people living on welfare/government assistance
1. It's basically a pyramid in terms of number of people who belong to each of those groups and like it or not, (white and asian) men are overrepresented in group #1 mainly because they are more often to start up a business growing big on their own (even though women start over 70% of new businesses) and they tend to start it up with their friends, who are generally men as well. The rich heir part is about equal in numbers.
2. D.C. has women overrepresented in group #2, believe it or not. Maybe not on CEO positions, but when you add assistants and other well-paid and "among top spots" positions in administration, NGOs, NPOs, etc the number of women outnumbers number of men.
And that's where the trouble starts. The ratio is close to 3-2 in those two groups, that means even if all men in #1 and #2 would go after women in those two categories, you'd still have 1/3 of women in those two groups being unpaired. Remember the part about self-made men not really focusing on the group #1 anyways? This means that rich heirs will mostly marry each other and many of the men in the "self-made" group will opt for someone else other than the group #1 or even group #2.
This is the reality of dating and that's all there is. It's women who won't lower their standards and they'll never opt for a plumber, regardless what the thread says. This is also why dating scene in D.C. is mostly short-term and most career-women tend to end up alone. Men also learn to avoid them because they aren't a safe option for family life anyways (another common thing resulting).
For those reasons you have Washington D.C. having the youngest population in the U.S. yet it also has the lowest marriage rates in the whole country.
It's because, unlike the common difference between male heir and self-made male businessmen, women will demand that their suitors are very successful or wealthy heirs anyways regardless of their own background and circumstances.
The main difference is that men tend to marry someone from their own "personality surrounding". If they spent their life with generally regular folks, they'll marry someone who fits that life. If they were rich heirs growing up in purple and stuff like that, they'll stick with their own. Women don't reason this way and it's well known thing, thus the career-woman stereotype.
Makes no difference really. It's what people do and people have always preferred to be equally yoked. This is nothing new. Why would a successful, educated man choose a hot waitress over a hot succesful, educated woman? Most don't and won't. As far as middle-aged people go, who want to be married and aren't, well there are other issues going on there.
You are a woman, correct? Let's let men say what they want, instead of you telling them and everyone else what they want. I expect the same treatment for myself from those who aren't of my demographic.
"Makes no difference" to you may be true, but how about you let guys speak for themselves on this?
Hostile? Hey, I don't know what your problem is, but just because a person disagrees with you doesn't mean they're out to get you. Geesh.
No one is out to get me at all here as this thread is not about me. You are just a bit of a hostile woman who wants to tell others what they think. You are obnoxious in the way you want to railroad over the opinions of others. You are crass and offensive in the way you can't interact with other people without the attitude.
There are about three posters who took jabs at me accusing me of exactly what I was referring to. That somehow, because I want a partner who has worked as hard as me, I'm an elitist.
That is absolutely not true nor a fair statement.
Part 2. If you don't live in DC and you haven't read the DC thread coupled with a host of other sites dedicated to the DC dating scene, you would not understand how "What do you do, are you a contractor or fed, what agency, what grade, are there any openings" thing works. It's pathetic, but that's just par for the course in this town.
I didn't always have this job. I worked for it. Am I allowed to say that without being accused of being an elitist? That I worked for my career? That it was only three years ago that I was making a dollar an hour over minimum wage and working 70 hours a week with people who tossed poo and bologna at me? When I'm introduced to new folks via friends and co-workers, my resume sort of comes with it. So, first meeting, they make a comment about my job and income, despite not knowing exactly what I do, or my income. That's the intro in this town. So far at least.
The last person I was intro'd to was going on about where I live and where I'm moving to and how my apartment cost twice as much as theirs. I'm not a child, for the record. I'm an adult and so is the other person. Graduated college and all that. These topics come up as a matter of general conversation. Apparently, in this town, even your zip code is weighed. And then he started in on the education. That's when I tuned him out and shut down. I already knew a bit about him, and I knew that he came with all the "dc credentials", and chose to pursue an artistic career.
Cool, but I still got angry that he asked me about my credentials when he's of a certain age, living in a basement, plucking on a guitar, judging me and my zip code.
To someone else who said that I need to focus on my concern... my concern, is not finding my equal in life. And by equal, I don't mean financially or appearance wise. What I don't want... Is someone who has elected to skate through their life in the effort to go against "the man", who is getting to a certain age, realizes that his choices in life have left him hollow and now he wants a female who can allow him to continue on the same exact path he's been on since he was 21.
For example, I dated a musician. He was an awesome musician. I wholeheartedly supported his passion. But when you get to a certain age, you can't keep taking off 5 days a month to tour in a borrowed van and ask your girlfriend to front the cost of that as you live in a 5 bed with 4 other roommates, because you took leave without pay at your job that's barely above minimum wage and can't afford gas money for the tour. One year later, I looked around my apartment. I realized that he has moved himself in without my permission and he was babbling about marriage. Then he started babbling about wanting to meet my family in another state and having children.
And it occurred to me why he was moving so fast.
It was for the simple reason that I could take care of him while he continued on his current path. I could provide him with the stability that he chose not to provide for himself and do his laundry to boot.
No. That's just not going to happen sparky. It's not. And when I told him that this was not the relationship I wanted, he accused me of dumping him because of my job. The same type of jab as the three posters. Somehow, I owe my passions, labors and love to a man simply because he wants them for his own benefit and hey... what else can an average girl like me want from a guy? (For the record, I did not have my current job at the time. I only made more money than him because I worked so much OT. )
So when I say equal, I mean if I had to choose between diapers or happy hour, I would choose diapers because that's the right thing to do when you elect to have children. I would not be upset about making that choice. And I want a partner who is willing to make the same type of choice without bitterness or resentment.
I won't apologize for wanting an actual partner. So I'm back to my original post. For females. Are you or have you experienced this issue with men over 30? And if so, please share your stories.
This is not about income levels. It's about life choices that have created the adult male's need for a female who provides him with the stability that he refused to provide for himself.
Last edited by mrskay662000; 09-04-2013 at 09:04 PM..
Reason: grammatical issues
There are about three posters who took jabs at me accusing me of exactly what I was referring to. That somehow, because I want a partner who has worked as hard as me, I'm an elitist.
That is absolutely not true nor a fair statement.....
.
.
.
This is not about income levels. It's about life choices that have created the adult male's need for a female who provides him with the stability that he refused to provide for himself.
Everyone should re-read this post, but change every male noun and pronoun to female and vice versa, especially the last sentence.
Feminism has created a species who three years earlier when she was making $8.00 an hour would have happily glommed on to a guy who made much more money, in fact would have demanded it, but now that she makes a lot more than average, people at the level she was at just a few years ago are not worthy.
No wonder the rate of marriage is dropping like a rock.
Part 2. If you don't live in DC and you haven't read the DC thread coupled with a host of other sites dedicated to the DC dating scene, you would not understand how "What do you do, are you a contractor or fed, what agency, what grade, are there any openings" thing works. It's pathetic, but that's just par for the course in this town.
And not just for dating... for every social situation. You could be at a backyard BBQ, meet up with friends of a friend at ball game, whatever. It's usually the second question after, "what's your name." I really think people can't get it unless they live in this area. And when people move to this area, it's a bit of a culture shock how career focused so many people are. On dates, I've had men hand me their business cards.
I find the dating scene in the DC area rough. As I mentioned before, there are more single women than single men and I think most single women know this. I am not sure where this concept of DC women, "waiting for men to beat a path to your door" comes from. Logic would dictate it would be the other way around since there are less single men and they are the ones in demand.
Personally, I am expanding out of the area. I am in the NoVa side of things and I am thinking about looking as far away as Richmond. I am also looking at the Eastern Shore since that's where most of my family is and old friends (the old, ask a friend if they know anyone looking). If you don't have those kind of connections, maybe just expand online dating to zip codes out of the immediate metro area.
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