Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
a lot of women are giving it up way too easy these days, so there's really no need to be chivalrous
There's truth to this. Unfortunately, if you don't 'give it up' easily the guy will move on almost immediately to someone who will.
My guy is pretty chivalrous and I'm the same way to him because being nice benefits both of us. And I didn't 'give it up' quickly, nor did he demand I did. He's a rare gem, that's for sure.
18 pages and no one got even close. Here is a page from ascensions higher school of flying. Sit back and enjoy.
When you base your decisions on emotional intelligence, bypassing logic and reason, it allows you to answer the same question in any way you choose, and ultimately in whatever way is most beneficial to you at the moment. Let me give you an example: When you ask a woman about gender equality, at the time when she is applying for a well paying gig, when it comes to voting, when it comes to making important choices, when it comes to leading a family etc etc...the answer is always "Yes, men and women are equal, thus Im entitled to all of the above (meaning to anything that benefits me).
Next day, you can ask the same woman about taking on a job where you endanger your life, who pays for the first date, who should display chivalry and who doesnt have to, or who does the car maintenance and the answer is: No, Im a woman and youre a man. Implying that we arent really that equal at all"
Thing is, this applies to absolutely any important question you can think of, and not only chivalry or dating. That is how women operate, that is how they benefit from ability to circumvent any logic and reason, and simply focus on what is beneficial to her at any given moment. To be honest, it is by far much better way to be, because it benefits you to no end. It helps you justify and rationalize anything you choose, and it helps you reaping the benefits and never putting yourself in a bad position.
For most men, it is impossible, because we rely on logic and reason, rather then emotional intelligence. There are consequences of each approach. A person who bases their decisions and answers on only emotions and what benefits them best at any given moment, displays zero consistency of character and consistency of character is base for honor and sometimes soul. What do 5 main religions have to say about this, Id rather not go there, but you can. Cheers!
Agree, except for the part about 18 pages. Reconfigure your interface, you're doing it wrong!
Like stopping and helping an unknown woman on the side of the highway who has a flat tire. I don't do it. I assume she is my equal in every way, and I certainly wouldn't need anyone's help, so I assume she doesn't need mine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by McLovin'
Let's take one of the examples that was brought up earlier in this thread: dropping the woman off at the front door and parking the car. Why should the woman not drop ME off at the front door of the restaurant? Why is it ok for me to risk a twisted ankle in an icy parking lot, but not her? Why is my twisted ankle not as big of a deal as hers, all things being equal? The response so far has been, "its just the considerate thing to do for her." So is it inconsiderate, then, that a woman has never done this for me? What is the rational explanation?
You have a severely twisted view of women, and I don't think that any explanation of chivalry will ever be understood by you. Today's chivalrous man is certainly different than in years past, but the intent is the same. And I am reasonably certain you won't "get" it, but here it is.
Chivalry is not selfish, or condescending, or demeaning of women. It doesn’t expect less of them, or feel that they should be entitled to more for no particular reason. Men who exhibit this kind of chivalry are perfectly respectful of a woman in the workplace, on a date, and in the process of making any number of choices he might not agree with. His purpose is not to distinguish her by her femininity, but rather to acknowledge what his masculinity might imply. This kind of chivalry — doing everything possible to make a woman feel safe and acknowledged — is not based on what it means to be a woman. It is acknowledging that she encounters, likely on a daily basis, many men who disrespect her humanity. She is catcalled, she is pushed, she is touched against her will, she is talked down to and made to feel profoundly uncomfortable. She can’t tell who is following her, she doesn’t know what a man’s intentions might be, she doesn’t want to be in certain places alone at night. And when a man makes extra effort to make sure she knows that he means no harm, that he treats her with respect and wants equally to make sure that she is okay, he is saying that he he knows what we most likely feel so often.
It is, in a way, an apology for the other men who have made this extra gesture of comfort so necessary. When a man walks you to the bus, or carries your bags, or makes sure you get home okay, he is doing what he can to make your experience just that much less threatening. And while, in a perfect world, we would be treating both women and men with the exact same levels of deference and effort, the truth is that one group simply doesn’t need it like the other one does. The world isn’t as disrespectful to them, isn’t as damaging to their ability to walk through things freely — even at night.
This kind of chivalry, the chivalry that comes from acknowledging how cruel some men can be to women, should be praised and acknowledged. It should be the kind of thing that we expect from men, and which men come to expect from one another, until it is as much a necessity for social interaction as speaking the same language. It should not be unusual or surprising in any way, and should not be interpreted as an attack or degradation on what it means to be a woman.
Last edited by ChessieMom; 11-18-2013 at 10:29 PM..
First off I want to acknowledge that I am McLovin' and was banned. I don't know if I am allowed to create a new handle, and if not, I suppose the mods will ban me again....so be it. I will try to tone it down.
I think you are correct in saying that I am never going to "get" this or agree. Many men also experience disrespect and are made to feel uncomfortable on a daily basis, and yet there is no reciprocal that is applied to men, from women, such as chivalry.
Regarding the bolded, these are my problems with the women of the boards line of reasoning. You are expecting an apology from random men who did nothing wrong. What is the "apology" given to men by women, for the "bad behavior" of women? This seems to play along to the undercurrent that runs through our culture, that being: "man=bad, woman=good". The first bolded portion of your quote all but states it outright.
You can, in no way, argue that men don't experience disrespect, discomfort and fear. And yet, you plainly state "men simply don't need that to be acknowledged." As such, there is no reciprocal pre-apology from women to men. In fact, if men have suffered wounds emotional or physical at the hands of a woman or women, he gets no consideration for that. He is just 'damaged goods' or has 'baggage,' which is his own problem and is dismissed outright.
If women "expect" this type of behavior from men, they're going to be sorely disappointed. Just as men who expect traditionally feminine behavior from women will, in turn, be disappointed.
In conclusion, what I see this as, is you wanting to retain victim status. I'm sorry, I don't think you get to occupy the space of "equal" and "victim" at the same time.
And with that, I really am OUT of this chivalry conversation.
I think her point was that when it comes to making sure a woman gets home safely it's because it's usually women who are raped, kidnapped, enslaved as sex workers, etc.... the fact of biology is women are physically weaker and more vulnerable in situations where that could arise. Women, more so than men, need to fear the Ariel Castros* of the world. And while it's rare, it does happen, and happens mostly to women.
The man I am seeing asks me to call when I get home when he sees me off. And it makes me feel better--that I know if something happens to me (like a break down or something) that someone has my back and will notice I am missing. I think it gives him peace of mind too. For what it's worth, I do ask him to call when he gets home, etc. He laughs at the idea (but still complies because he knows it gives me peace of mind. But I think he doesn't worry so much about getting home safely).
* In case you don't remember, he was the man who kidnapped and held captive three women for years while he raped and tortured them.
I think her point was that when it comes to making sure a woman gets home safely it's because it's usually women who are raped, kidnapped, enslaved as sex workers, etc.... the fact of biology is women are physically weaker and more vulnerable in situations where that could arise. Women, more so than men, need to fear the Ariel Castros* of the world. And while it's rare, it does happen, and happens mostly to women.
The man I am seeing asks me to call when I get home when he sees me off. And it makes me feel better--that I know if something happens to me (like a break down or something) that someone has my back and will notice I am missing. I think it gives him peace of mind too. For what it's worth, I do ask him to call when he gets home, etc. He laughs at the idea (but still complies because he knows it gives me peace of mind. But I think he doesn't worry so much about getting home safely).
* In case you don't remember, he was the man who kidnapped and held captive three women for years while he raped and tortured them.
I also ask a woman to shoot me a text when she gets home safely. Perhaps I am more chivalrous than I think.
I also ask a woman to shoot me a text when she gets home safely. Perhaps I am more chivalrous than I think.
Perhaps you are
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
