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Of course the wife has to sign the prenuptial agreement right ???
man, I feel American women are cruel on this part.
Yes, because we are American women, we MUST all think alike and act alike
That's like saying "foreign men are social rejects" based off the actions of a few.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adham
When someone like Duncan Bannatyne ($500M) looses half of his net worth because of divorce then it's a very bit****y thing a wife could do to her husband. Not only that but his wife text him while he was doing the shooting for Dragon Den TV show telling him she wants a divorce. So don't you tell me women aren't creepy or cruel when it comes to divorce because they are. She could live out of a million, she doesn't need to take all the $250M. Second if you don't like my original thread, then why are you even making comments in it, why are you here ? get out and move to another thread. I can post what ever I want to and ask as many questions as I want to !!!
So are men. What's your point? You aren't even married and you likely don't have millions, because if you did you'd probably already have a lawyer that could get these answers for you.
This thread seems like a thinly veiled attempt to bash women.
Further proof in that situation one does not need a lawyer.
I too, got some solid honest advice from attorney's who told me the same thing that lawyer told you.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,938 posts, read 36,935,179 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
You both get lawyers. The lawyers get money.
Lots of people don't go this route. They use a mediator and save a ton. Known several couples that went this route as they didn't want to make it even worse than it was, especially for the children.
A lot of vitriol percolates up, whenever divorce is mentioned... on this forum, and really anywhere. I'm a divorced man, but I disagree with those who assert that the husband always "gets screwed" or that courts side with the wife. The wealthier of the two spouses generally gets screwed. If the wife is a successful professional but the husband is a philandering deadbeat who eventually gets bored and sues for divorce, then the wife will get screwed.
We bemoan rising wealth-inequality in this country. Well, one reason is that "the system" renders it very unwise for rich to marry poor, for executives to marry their secretaries.
The above notwithstanding, my divorce was an amicable "dissolution". Such things also happen. The actual courtroom procedure lasted 5 minutes. It consisted of swearing-in, the judge questioning both parties about their concurrence to the submitted terms of dissolution, and a thwack of the gavel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adham
So what your saying is, if you got rich before marriage then you will lose only half of the amount that was made between the time you were married and the time of the divorce ?
but if you made you'r $100M after marriage then the wife gets half of it witch is $50M ???
It depends very, very strongly on the state. But making a sweeping generalization, yes, the above paragraph sounds to be correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BugsyPal
There is not such thing as divorce "in America" since each state has their own set of laws.
Precisely! We should not say that there is "a" United States of America. Rather, there "are" United States of America. 50 mini-countries making their own laws, loosely federated by a common currency and common military. Laws vary greatly from state to state.
Divorce radically different outside USA, much less nasty and painful, mediation
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742
Lots of people don't go this route. They use a mediator and save a ton. Known several couples that went this route as they didn't want to make it even worse than it was, especially for the children.
This. Been lurking a while and so glad to see someone mention this. In fact mediation is by far the standard almost everywhere else in the world, where divorce courts are the exception more than the norm, and almost everywhere else the divorce process is nowhere near as punitive, harsh or ruinous as it is in the United States. I did my legal thesis research and practicum on international law, and it astounds me how much of an outlier the US is on family law and divorce. Only Britain and Australia (and occasionally Canada in some provinces) come anywhere close to the harshness and nastiness that permeates so much of the US family law system, and I'd still say they're not nearly as awful in general. What makes the USA such a horrendous place to get divorced in (and in effect a terrible place to get married and start a family in, especially for men but increasingly for both spouses) is in major part this very issue-- the financial rewards in the US are highest for a messy and expensive divorce, not only benefiting the lawyers but also the courts due to all the fees incurred, while support payments also receive matching federal funds in some cases. Whereas in about every other country, industrialized or otherwise, the law and cultural customs are very strict in limiting anyone's ability to make money from divorce-- lawyers, spouses, court officials or anyone else-- and divorce in general is much harder to initiate, so couples do simple mediation and generally conclude their relationships, if not amicably, then at least on mutually decent terms.
Note that this goes for most other highly developed Western nations as much as for more religiously conservative ones. For example in Scandinavian countries like Sweden, generally the pinnacle for gender equality, alimony and even extended child support are either rare or capped in such a way that they provide "start-up support" for spouses and encourage independence for both spouses. Lawyers don't rake in big money, so mediation is highly encouraged and the norm. Scandinavia is one of the few places with divorce rates as high as the US, but people are able to stay financially solvent and spouses (and their kids) tend to do much better afterward than American spouses and kids. Divorce throughout the European continent is very, very different from the US in other ways, too, with divorce rates in most cases being much lower. Mediation is the norm, and custody tends to be jointly awarded or shared in some form, so child support is shared, too-- they don't have these horrendous burdens for a "non-custodial spouse" like in the US. Alimony is rare or uniformly capped very tightly, legal fees are much lower and they tend to require a "cooling off period" of separation before a divorce actually takes place, and attempts to repair the marriage first. Even the community property rule is usually quite different, it's generally not a 50/50 split, the higher earner keeps most of what they earned, but is required to provide adequately (complicated formula) for the family and help the other spouse get trained as needed for work, which is much cheaper in Europe than in the US-- no student debt there. In general divorce rates are also lower because of this.
Haven't even gotten to more culturally and religiously conservative cases like the Catholic countries of South America or much of Asia, where divorce is rare to begin with. Sometimes they use annulments, and of course for abuse or criminal activity there are ways for spouses to leave, but in general the cultural customs and the laws put enormous pressure to stay in a marriage. When divorce does happen there's usually a mediation process again. If couples are very unhappy they de facto get separated and cohabit with new spouses, and the kids with the new "spouses" are sort of de facto adopted into the original family. It's complicated and hard to explain to those of us from an Anglo country background, but in practice it's hardly unusual for separated couples to sort of reside on the same plot with the new "spouses" and kids, sort of like having a guest house behind the main house. Chile for example has one of the lowest divorce rates in the world, and while it can vary from Brazil through Argentina, Uruguay, Colombia, Ecuador and Venezuela, it's just very, very different from anything we're used to in the US. People just sort of separate and move on for the most part. In Asia-- a world apart. China and the Chinese-influenced nations basically have no alimony or spousal support to speak of, nor do Japan or Korea. Divorce there is done more through vaguely informal arrangements that are something like alimony, but not much of a financial transaction and nothing like the family law court gold rush as in the US. India is just hihgly complicated due to all the different states and even Indians themselves are often confused by the patch-work. For example much of south India was a French colony rather than British so they often use some version of the Napoleonic Code, old Portuguese India (in the west) still retains some elements of old Portuguese Catholic law. The once British-ruled portions of India actually don't really use British law (or alimony) that much but formulate their own systems. Much of India wasn't colonized by anybody so they use laws dating back to the Mughals. Southeast Asian countries in many cases don't even recognize divorce as Americans normally think of it. In practice most people just winding up doing mediation, in general again much easier than in the US.
I'll be up front about it, my wife and I ourselves are marrying and settling overseas, we'd never consider marrying in the United States due to all the awful-ness of the family courts and the way many lawyers and even unscrupulous judges (we've seen it) make things even more miserable for the couples, especially for the kids, often just to make more money. We're actually settling in south Italy-- long story, more or less going to do consulting for a US company contracting there. Having an Italian great-grandmother probably didn't hurt either, overseas Italian diaspora often have an easier time coming to Italy though it's not necessary to have that background. Also learned a bit of Italian to get going. The economy's a good deal better in Germany or Holland and we could also go there, but we'd have to take language classes to get set up, for now things in Italy are ideal and it's where we'll be raising our children, as Italian kids essentially. If things were to go belly-up divorce is much less painful in Italy and in general, the society has a lot of support networks to keep you out of divorce to begin with. Greece is similar, had a colleague move there with her husband and they're much more secure in their marriage as they themselves admit.
This. Been lurking a while and so glad to see someone mention this. In fact mediation is by far the standard almost everywhere else in the world, where divorce courts are the exception more than the norm, and almost everywhere else the divorce process is nowhere near as punitive, harsh or ruinous as it is in the United States. I did my legal thesis research and practicum on international law, and it astounds me how much of an outlier the US is on family law and divorce. Only Britain and Australia (and occasionally Canada in some provinces) come anywhere close to the harshness and nastiness that permeates so much of the US family law system, and I'd still say they're not nearly as awful in general. What makes the USA such a horrendous place to get divorced in (and in effect a terrible place to get married and start a family in, especially for men but increasingly for both spouses) is in major part this very issue-- the financial rewards in the US are highest for a messy and expensive divorce, not only benefiting the lawyers but also the courts due to all the fees incurred, while support payments also receive matching federal funds in some cases. Whereas in about every other country, industrialized or otherwise, the law and cultural customs are very strict in limiting anyone's ability to make money from divorce-- lawyers, spouses, court officials or anyone else-- and divorce in general is much harder to initiate, so couples do simple mediation and generally conclude their relationships, if not amicably, then at least on mutually decent terms.
Note that this goes for most other highly developed Western nations as much as for more religiously conservative ones. For example in Scandinavian countries like Sweden, generally the pinnacle for gender equality, alimony and even extended child support are either rare or capped in such a way that they provide "start-up support" for spouses and encourage independence for both spouses. Lawyers don't rake in big money, so mediation is highly encouraged and the norm. Scandinavia is one of the few places with divorce rates as high as the US, but people are able to stay financially solvent and spouses (and their kids) tend to do much better afterward than American spouses and kids. Divorce throughout the European continent is very, very different from the US in other ways, too, with divorce rates in most cases being much lower. Mediation is the norm, and custody tends to be jointly awarded or shared in some form, so child support is shared, too-- they don't have these horrendous burdens for a "non-custodial spouse" like in the US. Alimony is rare or uniformly capped very tightly, legal fees are much lower and they tend to require a "cooling off period" of separation before a divorce actually takes place, and attempts to repair the marriage first. Even the community property rule is usually quite different, it's generally not a 50/50 split, the higher earner keeps most of what they earned, but is required to provide adequately (complicated formula) for the family and help the other spouse get trained as needed for work, which is much cheaper in Europe than in the US-- no student debt there. In general divorce rates are also lower because of this.
Haven't even gotten to more culturally and religiously conservative cases like the Catholic countries of South America or much of Asia, where divorce is rare to begin with. Sometimes they use annulments, and of course for abuse or criminal activity there are ways for spouses to leave, but in general the cultural customs and the laws put enormous pressure to stay in a marriage. When divorce does happen there's usually a mediation process again. If couples are very unhappy they de facto get separated and cohabit with new spouses, and the kids with the new "spouses" are sort of de facto adopted into the original family. It's complicated and hard to explain to those of us from an Anglo country background, but in practice it's hardly unusual for separated couples to sort of reside on the same plot with the new "spouses" and kids, sort of like having a guest house behind the main house. Chile for example has one of the lowest divorce rates in the world, and while it can vary from Brazil through Argentina, Uruguay, Colombia, Ecuador and Venezuela, it's just very, very different from anything we're used to in the US. People just sort of separate and move on for the most part. In Asia-- a world apart. China and the Chinese-influenced nations basically have no alimony or spousal support to speak of, nor do Japan or Korea. Divorce there is done more through vaguely informal arrangements that are something like alimony, but not much of a financial transaction and nothing like the family law court gold rush as in the US. India is just hihgly complicated due to all the different states and even Indians themselves are often confused by the patch-work. For example much of south India was a French colony rather than British so they often use some version of the Napoleonic Code, old Portuguese India (in the west) still retains some elements of old Portuguese Catholic law. The once British-ruled portions of India actually don't really use British law (or alimony) that much but formulate their own systems. Much of India wasn't colonized by anybody so they use laws dating back to the Mughals. Southeast Asian countries in many cases don't even recognize divorce as Americans normally think of it. In practice most people just winding up doing mediation, in general again much easier than in the US.
I'll be up front about it, my wife and I ourselves are marrying and settling overseas, we'd never consider marrying in the United States due to all the awful-ness of the family courts and the way many lawyers and even unscrupulous judges (we've seen it) make things even more miserable for the couples, especially for the kids, often just to make more money. We're actually settling in south Italy-- long story, more or less going to do consulting for a US company contracting there. Having an Italian great-grandmother probably didn't hurt either, overseas Italian diaspora often have an easier time coming to Italy though it's not necessary to have that background. Also learned a bit of Italian to get going. The economy's a good deal better in Germany or Holland and we could also go there, but we'd have to take language classes to get set up, for now things in Italy are ideal and it's where we'll be raising our children, as Italian kids essentially. If things were to go belly-up divorce is much less painful in Italy and in general, the society has a lot of support networks to keep you out of divorce to begin with. Greece is similar, had a colleague move there with her husband and they're much more secure in their marriage as they themselves admit.
That is very smart, I was on the fence between learning Russian and learning German. I have no real family anywhere over seas but I have a very profound resume for oil and gas work which is why I chose Russian. I cant afford to get slapped again in the USA. I am out 40 grand and have no credit for 7 years and there were not even any kids involved.
hahahaha...I am not even married, I am just wondering how these divorce issues work. I guess it ends up being 50/50.
If you want to understand divorce, figure out what state you think you may live in when you get divorced (haha) and go read up on the divorce laws. I tell my married friends, "the best way to face reality is to go read the divorce laws of the state you plan to live in". It's an eye opener. Most people learn the laws when they're going through one.
And to answer your original question: The circumstances and actions of your life, before, during, and after the marriage, along with the city/county/state you file in, along with the judge you happen to get (IF you have to face them), and probably so much more....will determine "how divorce works".
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Divorce radically different outside USA, much less nasty and painful, mediation
