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In my field, there's a lot of room for growth. You can go onto project management, become a director, VP, or maybe even start your own company. But not all of us are that ambitious. Moving up the corporate ladder does require some trade offs. If I really wanted to be a manager, I could work towards achieving that goal. But I decided a long time ago that I wouldn't enjoy that type of job nor would I be willing to make the concessions required. Apparently, that turned off one person I was dating. And it's not like my current job was some low-ranking minimum wage job. I make plenty of money in a respectable profession and have good job security. Maybe in her mind I wasn't successful since I was content with my current job and not aiming higher. I see this a lot though. A guy I know is a doctor. He's a salaried employee of a hospital. His wife complains that he doesn't want to start his own practice or work his way up to being the head of his department or chief of staff. And it's not like they're hurting for money. My suspicion is that she wants the bragging rights that come with being able to say "my husband is the head of pediatrics at so-and-so hospital." A previous poster talked about how people compare prospective partners to their friends' partners and use them as a baseline to measure success. Ultimately, I and the doctor I just described have decided not to worry what others think. If I fail to pass someone's "successful" test, I won't lose sleepover it. And if anything, it tells me a lot about the person who set the bar so high in the first place.
I would say that the consensus of what women and society in general considers successful is college educated with a white collar job where you have some career progression to senior or management levels by mid 30s to early 40s and make at least 75K a year.
If you do a trade or run your own business and make a similar amount, that's probably fine too.
If you are an artist or musician or something, you don't have to make as much $, but you have to be good. That's probably even harder.
I think that's the BASELINE. Many women want a lot more than that. Some don't need a successful man.
I would say that the consensus of what women and society in general considers successful is college educated with a white collar job where you have some career progression to senior or management levels by mid 30s to early 40s and make at least 75K a year.
If you do a trade or run your own business and make a similar amount, that's probably fine too.
If you are an artist or musician or something, you don't have to make as much $, but you have to be good. That's probably even harder.
I think that's the BASELINE. Many women want a lot more than that. Some don't need a successful man.
Lot of women make more than men now in 2014 anyway so I don't even concerned myself with her definition of successful
A question to all the women reading and participating in this thread:
...........Would you ladies deem such a man to be “successful” in your own eyes?
.............
Sorry, not nearly enough information. All you've told about him is that he is a good saver. That's a good characteristic, but tells nothing about whether or not he has been a success in his life.
Personally, I don't consider a person who waits passively for life to happen to them to be a successful person. But a person who is setting goals that they are passionate about, working towards them, and meeting them I am more likely to consider to be a success.
If you ask a woman what she looks for in a man, you'll often hear something along the lines of "attractive, funny, outgoing, successful, etc.' But what exactly does 'successful' mean? Does it mean he's reached a certain income level? Does it mean he's now the boss of something? Does it mean he owns a home and no longer rents? Does it mean he's debt free? I realize the answer is going to vary and I'm hoping this doesn't escalate into gender bashing. But it seems like the word 'successful' is almost code for something else. Much like the word 'confident', no one will think less of you if you say you want someone who's confident. It's one of those safe words. Sounds great, but it's sufficiently broad that no one can really pin down exactly what you have in mind.
When I look at myself, I sometimes wonder if I meet the definition of 'successful' that these women subscribe to. I've been working steadily for nearly 2 decades in the same field, I have a good income that's more than enough to meet my needs, and except for a mortgage and car payment, I'm not carrying any debt. I don't still live at home with my parents. But I'm not a manager, I don't own my own business, and I don't have the kind of job title that really makes me stand out. So does that mean I'm not successful?
So for the men, how do you interpret it when a woman says she's looking for someone successful? Do you think it's a just nice way of saying she's a goldigger? Or do you see it in a positive light? For the women, how do you decide whether a man is successful? Is there some formula or litmus test that you apply? Is being successful a yes/no quality or do you feel it's more fluid than that? And if so, how do you measure it?
Success is one of those things that is dynamic... it may means different things to a 22 yr than a 42 yr old..... or a 62 your old.
Last edited by Chowhound; 04-12-2014 at 11:24 AM..
What about if you consider a man (for instance, one in his late 50s or even early 60s) whose career and work life, by-and-large, has been on the low-end of the earnings scale... and yet who can now show himself to have, say, $250,000-to-$300,000... solely because...inheritance...Would you ladies deem such a man to be “successful” in your own eyes?
It depends on the other factors. Does he love the low-paid work that he does? Does he do it because he feels it contributtes to making the world a better place, or involves artistic expression, or a spiritual calling, or something like that?
Did he know the inheritance was coming, and so he was free to choose the low paid work that he loves and still have his own retirement covered? Does he feel grateful for this opportunity, or entitled?
Is he investing the money wisely, so that it will be enough for retirement?
Is he happy with his life, does he have close friends and meet the other, real, definitions of success in this thread?
Quote:
In other words, does the determination of a man's “success” (financially-speaking) apply, in your mind, ONLY IF a man's financial assets were wholly or nearly-wholly self-earned or self-achieved through one’s own work efforts (not wholly or nearly wholly by virtue of coming into his parents' inheritance upon their death)?
No, it's more about happiness, and luck vs. planning.
My turn to venture with what I consider to be successful (for men or women!). "Successful" means having made a substantial and seminal contribution to one's field. If you are in quantitative finance, have you developed a new trading algorithm? If you are a writer, are your books critically acclaimed? If you are a scientist, are your peer-reviewed publications widely viewed as being influential in the field? If you are a surgeon, have you advanced the technique of surgery?
I'm an aerospace engineer, with a bent towards fundamental research. That alone means little. My desired-state is to show up at an aerospace engineering conference, basking in the hallway murmur on everyone's lips: "Did you see that Ohio Peasant is the keynote speaker on Tuesday? That's only in a half-hour! We better head to the auditorium now, before even the overflow seating fills-up".
This is of course a fantasy. In reality, overflow seating is unnecessary.
But how does this project onto success in relationships? It doesn't. It's a nice peripheral attribute, but accords no romantic sway. It's not a pickup line. It's not a basis for proposing marriage. And it has nothing to do with developing one's character - which, as I've posted above, is most women's principal criterion for "success".
My turn to venture with what I consider to be successful (for men or women!). "Successful" means having made a substantial and seminal contribution to one's field. If you are in quantitative finance, have you developed a new trading algorithm? If you are a writer, are your books critically acclaimed? If you are a scientist, are your peer-reviewed publications widely viewed as being influential in the field? If you are a surgeon, have you advanced the technique of surgery?
I'm an aerospace engineer, with a bent towards fundamental research. That alone means little. My desired-state is to show up at an aerospace engineering conference, basking in the hallway murmur on everyone's lips: "Did you see that Ohio Peasant is the keynote speaker on Tuesday? That's only in a half-hour! We better head to the auditorium now, before even the overflow seating fills-up".
This is of course a fantasy. In reality, overflow seating is unnecessary.
But how does this project onto success in relationships? It doesn't. It's a nice peripheral attribute, but accords no romantic sway. It's not a pickup line. It's not a basis for proposing marriage. And it has nothing to do with developing one's character - which, as I've posted above, is most women's principal criterion for "success".
The one criteria that some women have that always made me laugh is "he must be happy with his life"
I mean who is she to require someone to be happy with ALL PARTS of their life?
Somebody who has every right in the world to decide the people with whom she surrounds herself?
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