Do women respect men they can manipulate? (marry, cheat, sex)
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Seems like a lot of men these days are easily being manipulated by women. Many will do whatever is asked of them just to get a woman's attention or to get sex from her.
I know guys that have cut family off......emptied their bank accounts....and gotten themselves into horrible situations because they didn't have the balls to say NO.
You need a new crowd, man, a new posse. Don't chill with fools. A fool and his money are soon parted.
Actually I agree with OP, although maybe manipulate is the wrong word. I believe she is talking about "Nice Guys" guys who change their opinions to match yours, are passive, won't ask for their needs to be met (and then act passive-aggressively or explode in toddler temper tantrums because they get resentful that their needs aren't being met), do everything but shine your shoes because they think that being of service makes a woman happy, shy away from making decisions or act wishy-washy/ask for approval that they are making the right decisions, say "that's okay" even when someone's done something that clearly shouldn't be okay with them, have poor boundaries and let themselves be taken advantage of, etc, etc.
I lose respect, and therefore attraction, to guys like this very quickly, personally. Women (at least me) first and foremost want to feel safe, want to know their guy is emotionally strong, competent, and a rock for them, and if he bends into a pretzel or acts submissive or subservient or doubtful of the wisdom of his own decisions, it's impossible to feel that way about him. If there's a hurricane on the way, I want a man who will tell me decisively "here's the plan, I'm going to do this and that, you're going to do this, we're going to go here and don't worry, Baby, we're going to be fine, I'll take care of it", and to know that he is capable of making the correct decisions, not a guy who's going to say "OMG, what should we do???" and I have to take charge and comfort HIM.
As I said to you when giving you rep points: Very perceptive and thoughtful (and honest) posting. Thank you, from a man.
THIS is useful to hear from a woman. It appears that so many women over the ages are so wont to revealing what truly underlies their thinking and behavioral choices in relation to men and rather choose to play coy and mysterious (what my deceased mother called a long time ago the old "cat and mouse" game).
It is useful for a man (such as myself) who wants to do right by any woman (and yet also wants and expects right to also be done by and to me by whatever woman) to learn that it is OK for him to not be a wuss or weak-willed man who just is always or nearly always so eager and desperate to pander to a woman just to hold on to her or win her sexual or affectional favors. Without being told or taught (per se) in my life that I need to be this way, I have learned through long-enough experience (and also driven by my need to maintain my self-respect and to preserve my own dignity) to not be a simply passive man with a woman just so that I can always assumingly be "pleasing" to her . . . that is, that I also have a right to have expectations of a woman (not just mere hopes or desires or wishes but expectations) that she hold up her part of the implicit or stated understanding of why we are together in the first place and to always aim to exemplify the expected character necessary for me to be with her (i.e., full reciprocity of thoughtfulness, givingness, kindness, affection, etc. etc. etc.).
To whatever degree I used to be more of a panderer to women in the more distant past (as I was apparently so eager and needy), I have a while back settled and determined to not be this way anymore with women and am not this way anymore. My stance with any woman (and she should have the exact same stance with me as well) is that "you either 'put out or get out' " (meaning: "You either exemplify the character qualities that I deserve and expect in a life partner or lover or we are over and no ifs, ands, or buts about it"). That is, you either "deliver on the goodies" (and I should as well "deliver on the goodies" with her) or we are over. I don't need a woman that much that I will just be weak-willed and settle for substandard behavior just out of some neediness and desperation to not be alone. I have my own self-respect and self-dignity which is more important to me than any woman's companionship, her presence, or her sexual favors.
NOTE: I typed the following comment in a C-D thread from Feb. 2013 of which the thread’s OP titled the thread "Women like bad boys and dangerous men: Fact or fiction?" (my posting was posting # 182 within that mentioned C-D thread). I stated there (with extra commentary of mine added in to the posting below in boldface):
I have known a woman sort of like this that I worked alongside with in a company. She said to me once: "I can't stand wimpy guys. Like if I say to them 'Jump!', they ask 'How high?' I want a man who stands up to me and fights me. I want a man who is a challenge, who has a backbone, not some wimp."
(Then I stated further in my posting): I myself stand up to any woman (or man) if and when it is truly called for. I don't challenge or confront just to challenge or confront just so the woman can be excited and maintain her interest and commitment. (note: the previous sentence was stated in reference to a comment by another previous male poster in that same thread that women need to be continually challenged and even fought with just to maintain interest in the man, find him appealing, and continue to stay with him). If she needs to always be fought with and to always maintain a high adrenalin level to have a relationship with a man, then perhaps she would do herself well to seek some psychological or psychiatric help or counseling to deal with her self-esteem and self-image issues.
The point of this above-posted earlier commentary of mine (from a previous C-D Relationships thread) being this: This mentioned female fellow co-worker from my past seems to have a similar perspective to you, OCNJGirl (although she stated it in shorter and rougher language). I guess the intent of the OP of this present thread titled “Do woman respect men they can manipulate?” is to gauge how prevalent this way of thinking is amongst the female population-at-large. And you (OCNJGirl) and the former female co-worker of mine that I quoted above seem to concur that at least you two women do not respect such men. That is, you expect a man to hold his own and be a man (yes, a civil & balanced man otherwise, but still a man).
Thank you for sharing your honest thoughts and I respect you for having the outlook that you hold on this matter. Your views can be said to be an act of respect for a man’s dignity and personhood (i.e., that you won’t accept a man letting you trample all over him or have him cow-tow and defer to you constantly-- even when he may have reservations about it --just to be always presumably “pleasing” to you).
As I said to you when giving you rep points: Very perceptive and thoughtful (and honest) posting. Thank you, from a man.
THIS is useful to hear from a woman. It appears that so many women over the ages are so wont to revealing what truly underlies their thinking and behavioral choices in relation to men and rather choose to play coy and mysterious (what my deceased mother called a long time ago the old "cat and mouse" game).
It is useful for a man (such as myself) who wants to do right by any woman (and yet also wants and expects right to also be done by and to me by whatever woman) to learn that it is OK for him to not be a wuss or weak-willed man who just is always or nearly always so eager and desperate to pander to a woman just to hold on to her or win her sexual or affectional favors. Without being told or taught (per se) in my life that I need to be this way, I have learned through long-enough experience (and also driven by my need to maintain my self-respect and to preserve my own dignity) to not be a simply passive man with a woman just so that I can always assumingly be "pleasing" to her . . . that is, that I also have a right to have expectations of a woman (not just mere hopes or desires or wishes but expectations) that she hold up her part of the implicit or stated understanding of why we are together in the first place and to always aim to exemplify the expected character necessary for me to be with her (i.e., full reciprocity of thoughtfulness, givingness, kindness, affection, etc. etc. etc.).
To whatever degree I used to be more of a panderer to women in the more distant past (as I was apparently so eager and needy), I have a while back settled and determined to not be this way anymore with women and am not this way anymore. My stance with any woman (and she should have the exact same stance with me as well) is that "you either 'put out or get out' " (meaning: "You either exemplify the character qualities that I deserve and expect in a life partner or lover or we are over and no ifs, ands, or buts about it"). That is, you either "deliver on the goodies" (and I should as well "deliver on the goodies" with her) or we are over. I don't need a woman that much that I will just be weak-willed and settle for substandard behavior just out of some neediness and desperation to not be alone. I have my own self-respect and self-dignity which is more important to me than any woman's companionship, her presence, or her sexual favors.
NOTE: I typed the following comment in a C-D thread from Feb. 2013 of which the thread’s OP titled the thread "Women like bad boys and dangerous men: Fact or fiction?" (my posting was posting # 182 within that mentioned C-D thread). I stated there (with extra commentary of mine added in to the posting below in boldface):
I have known a woman sort of like this that I worked alongside with in a company. She said to me once: "I can't stand wimpy guys. Like if I say to them 'Jump!', they ask 'How high?' I want a man who stands up to me and fights me. I want a man who is a challenge, who has a backbone, not some wimp."
(Then I stated further in my posting): I myself stand up to any woman (or man) if and when it is truly called for. I don't challenge or confront just to challenge or confront just so the woman can be excited and maintain her interest and commitment. (note: the previous sentence was stated in reference to a comment by another previous male poster in that same thread that women need to be continually challenged and even fought with just to maintain interest in the man, find him appealing, and continue to stay with him). If she needs to always be fought with and to always maintain a high adrenalin level to have a relationship with a man, then perhaps she would do herself well to seek some psychological or psychiatric help or counseling to deal with her self-esteem and self-image issues.
The point of this above-posted earlier commentary of mine (from a previous C-D Relationships thread) being this: This mentioned female fellow co-worker from my past seems to have a similar perspective to you, OCNJGirl (although she stated it in shorter and rougher language). I guess the intent of the OP of this present thread titled “Do woman respect men they can manipulate?†is to gauge how prevalent this way of thinking is amongst the female population-at-large. And you (OCNJGirl) and the former female co-worker of mine that I quoted above seem to concur that at least you two women do not respect such men. That is, you expect a man to hold his own and be a man (yes, a civil & balanced man otherwise, but still a man).
Thank you for sharing your honest thoughts and I respect you for having the outlook that you hold on this matter. Your views can be said to be an act of respect for a man’s dignity and personhood (i.e., that you won’t accept a man letting you trample all over him or have him cow-tow and defer to you constantly-- even when he may have reservations about it --just to be always presumably “pleasing†to you).
Exactly, to the bolded! I am glad you appreciated my post.
Being manipulative isn't exclusive to women or men. It's good to draw a line in the sand about not tolerating manipulative behavior but realistically, faced with a real manipulator, you won't know you are being manipulated.
If you don't stand up for yourself and your beliefs...then very few people will respect you. Many people will think of you as weak, or worse, pathetic. That goes for either gender and applies to far more than just intimate relationships.
People who willingly try to manipulate others (successfully or not) probably don't respect anyone. Others are little more than tools to them.
Exactly, to the bolded! I am glad you appreciated my post.
Not only do I appreciate your post . . . I appreciate you! In fact, send me your phone number and let's hook up. For that matter, are you married? If not, I'll take the first train to see you and propose to you on my knees. I'll start making the wedding plans now. I'll compose a love song to you right now and sing it to you when I meet you.
I don't see how anyone could respect a person who could be easily "manipulated," but that is a loaded word. What about "convinced," "encouraged," "persuaded," "coaxed" ...? And conversely, is a stubborn person whose opinion never changes more loveable?
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