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The men on here that don't understand how someone you are attracted to can harass you, I will give you an (exaggerated) example.
A really hot playboy playmate type is coming on to you in a club. You are both into it until she whispers in your ear all the nasty things she wants to do to you. Maybe some feces are involved. Whatever. You say. "That's messed up. You need to find someone else to play those games" and you start to leave. She grabs your arms and rubs herself on you, saying...I know you want it. You must be gay if you don't want ...xyz...
Then when you walk out to your car, she pops out of nowhere and continues grabbing you and saying gross things.
Then you go to work and see that she has left a bunch of messages, as you had mentioned previously where you worked.
Harassment has NOTHING to do with attractiveness. It's about not taking no for an answer. It's about ignoring all social cues because she might be playing "hard to get" it's doing what you want because you want it, regardless of how the other person feels.
Unfortunately, your exaggerated example isn't all that exaggerated for some and even more unfortunate, I don't think some of the men on this site will ever understand it.
Unfortunately, your exaggerated example isn't all that exaggerated for some and even more unfortunate, I don't think some of the men on this site will ever understand it.
I know.
Some of the above happened to me. Although the messages in actual fact was a series of letters sent to the school I had worked at.
The men who think women are asking for it if they go to a club and are playing hard to get, will probably never change their minds.
Thank goodness that is not most men. Most men are really nice and would never harass anyone.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 36,957,550 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyerland
The men on here that don't understand how someone you are attracted to can harass you, I will give you an (exaggerated) example.
A really hot playboy playmate type is coming on to you in a club. You are both into it until she whispers in your ear all the nasty things she wants to do to you. Maybe some feces are involved. Whatever. You say. "That's messed up. You need to find someone else to play those games" and you start to leave. She grabs your arms and rubs herself on you, saying...I know you want it. You must be gay if you don't want ...xyz...
Then when you walk out to your car, she pops out of nowhere and continues grabbing you and saying gross things.
Then you go to work and see that she has left a bunch of messages, as you had mentioned previously where you worked.
Harassment has NOTHING to do with attractiveness. It's about not taking no for an answer. It's about ignoring all social cues because she might be playing "hard to get" it's doing what you want because you want it, regardless of how the other person feels.
Again, you're confusing attractiveness (objective statement of physical beauty) with attraction. A person (a sane, healthy person) would not be attracted to a person that acts like that.
Again, you're confusing attractiveness (objective statement of physical beauty) with attraction. A person (a sane, healthy person) would not be attracted to a person that acts like that.
Sometimes people hide who they are. You have never been attracted to someone, and then stopped when they showed the ugliness of their character?
If you are just meeting someone, you could be attracted to someone before being Unattracted. most people are attracted to a persons outer shell, without knowing anything else about them.
Of course a healthy person would not continue to be attracted to a harasser.
This whole thing looks like it is demonizing a whole gender for what a small amount of men do. And that is sexist.
Nobody on here has demonized a whole gender. The number of men who harass or rape women is relatively small. Most men are good people - or at least decent people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742
Again, you're confusing attractiveness (objective statement of physical beauty) with attraction. A person (a sane, healthy person) would not be attracted to a person that acts like that.
No - the point is that you were attracted to them. Look, you are a cool guy. I'm positive you have never harassed someone. But it's possible to be attracted to someone up until the point that they harass or rape you. I'm sure you understand this but there are guys on here that don't. They have said that if someone you are attracted to harasses or rapes you - then it isn't harassment or rape because you wouldn't see it that way. And that is not the case. You could be very attracted to someone. You could be dating them. And all of a sudden they do something that you are not comfortable with and instead of backing off, they keep coming on stronger and stronger. You WERE attracted to them - and now you just want them to get away. Some of the guys on here think that if you are attracted to someone, they can do no wrong. That is not the case. That is all we are trying to say.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 36,957,550 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyerland
Sometimes people hide who they are. You have never been attracted to someone, and then stopped when they showed the ugliness of their character?
If you are just meeting someone, you could be attracted to someone before being Unattracted. most people are attracted to a persons outer shell, without knowing anything else about them.
At that point I would cease being attracted. That is my entire point. Once the attraction stops, the behavior that was previously welcome, would no longer be welcome, and could cross into harassment territory.
And no, being attracted to someone really, in the true sense of the word, requires more than just seeing an outer shell. There is a distinct difference between saying someone is good looking, or objectively physically attractive, and finding them attractive. Those are very different things that people use interchangeably, unfortunately.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdrop93
No - the point is that you were attracted to them. Look, you are a cool guy. I'm positive you have never harassed someone. But it's possible to be attracted to someone up until the point that they harass or rape you. I'm sure you understand this but there are guys on here that don't. They have said that if someone you are attracted to harasses or rapes you - then it isn't harassment or rape because you wouldn't see it that way. And that is not the case. You could be very attracted to someone. You could be dating them. And all of a sudden they do something that you are not comfortable with and instead of backing off, they keep coming on stronger and stronger. You WERE attracted to them - and now you just want them to get away. Some of the guys on here think that if you are attracted to someone, they can do no wrong. That is not the case. That is all we are trying to say.
I fully agree with you. Were, past tense. It wasn't harassment up until then. It was after.
Just like a person when being physical and say yes, yes, yes and then say no and if you keep going it crosses the line to sexual assault. Absolutely true.
Sadly, this is a very delicate and emotionally charged topic, and one where semantics mean everything. Sadly, this board and in general online forums don't lend themselves to parsing out these situations.
At that point I would cease being attracted. That is my entire point. Once the attraction stops, the behavior that was previously welcome, would no longer be welcome, and could cross into harassment territory.
And no, being attracted to someone really, in the true sense of the word, requires more than just seeing an outer shell. There is a distinct difference between saying someone is good looking, or objectively physically attractive, and finding them attractive. Those are very different things that people use interchangeably, unfortunately.
I think we are both talking from the same viewpoint it's just not coming across. I am addressing the men who have said that it is impossible to be harassed from someone you are attracted to. harassers and rapists use that argument to justify their horrible behavior.
I agree with you, It is impossible to continue to be attracted to a harasser, but the initial attraction may have been there.
I can tell the difference between an attractive person and someone I am attracted to in a physical or emotional way.
I fully agree with you. Were, past tense. It wasn't harassment up until then. It was after.
Just like a person when being physical and say yes, yes, yes and then say no and if you keep going it crosses the line to sexual assault. Absolutely true.
Sadly, this is a very delicate and emotionally charged topic, and one where semantics mean everything. Sadly, this board and in general online forums don't lend themselves to parsing out these situations.
I agree.
The reason that I'm being so stubborn about this is that, although I believe that for the most part people who truly harass or rape women know exactly what they are doing - I feel like there are guys on this board who think that the reason that they have made women feel uncomfortable or unsafe is simply because they are not attractive. And - yes, I mean attractive in the physical sense and not that the women were not attracted to them. They use this as an excuse for their behavior - meaning that if they were more attractive, women wouldn't see their behavior as harassment. And I want those guys to realize that it doesn't matter how attractive a person is, they are still capable of harassing someone. And that even if a woman is attracted to you - if you don't pay attention to what she is telling you - you could still be harassing her. It's not about looks - it's about respecting the person you are with.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 36,957,550 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdrop93
I agree.
The reason that I'm being so stubborn about this is that, although I believe that for the most part people who truly harass or rape women know exactly what they are doing - I feel like there are guys on this board who think that the reason that they have made women feel uncomfortable or unsafe is simply because they are not attractive. And - yes, I mean attractive in the physical sense and not that the women were not attracted to them. They use this as an excuse for their behavior - meaning that if they were more attractive, women wouldn't see their behavior as harassment. And I want those guys to realize that it doesn't matter how attractive a person is, they are still capable of harassing someone. And that even if a woman is attracted to you - if you don't pay attention to what she is telling you - you could still be harassing her. It's not about looks - it's about respecting the person you are with.
Fair enough. I try to, or am trying to, ignore the "no one loves me because I'm ugly (on the outside), woe is me" crowd (and the 40 yo virgin sect). The board is more enjoyable with that perspective. These people are just such a small fringe minority, and they're so dug in their outlook, that there is no point (IMO).
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