Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
wholely smokes, i can't believe the level of informative, educational and well-reasoned/research analysis available online for men to better understand dating and relationship issues. and just from googling and going down the rabbit hole evaluating what sounds good and what is trash but always keeping an open mind, i believe any man interested in improving his relationship with women will find answers that will help. knowledge is power in itself, but using that knowledge by making an informed decision and taking appropriate action makes a world of difference in your life.
15 years ago, i had two significant LTRs (26yo and 32yo "keepers") that didn't work out but change my life, i discovered i was just making bad selections in my choice of women based on some ideal woman that i thought was best for me from trial and error, social norms (pop culture book store dating books), and my own mix of personal values and familial background models. so i decided to do something different and decided to start a mens' group for single guys where we chatted online about dating tips/advice/thoughts, shared resources, and helped one another go out meeting women, be a wingman, etc.
and in case any of your are preparing to launch a character assault on me, know this: i was in my mid-30s, average looking (think i've improved since then haha), raised a christian, have never been disrespectful or mistreated my gfs or dates because i always had a love and respect for my mom and sisters (3) and wanted the same for my SO, had completed my graduate school, another advanced professional training, served in the Army as an officer, was financially stable with a well-respected budding career. and by any measure i was aware, i had done what i was supposed to to be a "good man", a good catch. by that time i also had a fairly active dating and social life, which pretty much started to kick in 9th grade, lost my virginity in the 10th, dated a few of the above average good looking classmates in the 12th, and was banging and had the hottest h.s. cheerleader as my gf in my freshman year whom i had the hots for through out h.s. in college and thereafter, i got laid often enough, experimented with various types (young, old, very old, fat, other races, cultures, church types, party girls, fwb, escorts, OLD, etc) and had like 2-4 serious LTRs, all were good looking, smart, and wife quality. but for whatever reason, including my hesitation to commit at times, it just didn't work out, which was particularly disheartening with these two LTRs in had in my 30s because both were the "i'm not sure i'm gonna find anyone better" types.
all that was about me prior to starting my "poker club" with the fellas. i posted recruiting messages on various internet sites and set up our first meeting at a downtown bar. while i thought maybe a cool 10-15 guys would show up and we could split up into small 2-3man groups to go different bars, to my surprise it something like 42 guys showed up --all looking for dating and relationship help. anyway, the club started to pair down after some self-elimination but it had served its purposes by collecting a group of guys genuinely interested in improving their dating and relationship skills. and over the course of 6mos-1yr i saw guys go from geek to club dudes to finding a gf they were happy with. me? i ended up befriended a few hot dj's and club promoters then got VIP access to their clubs events, and was having the time of my life, as they say.
during that time i was also introduced to the PUA just after it started to become popular and took the Real Social Dynamics course in LA and Mystery Method's course in Vegas for the masters themselves in the now famous book "The Game" by Neil Strauss (met him too), and consumed a lot of online and those products. and, yeah, while it had the benefit of getting me laid more often, as an "older" mid-30s guy i still wanted to find "the One" to settle down with and figure out what personal adjustments i needed to make. i've been a self-improvement guy since high school, and to this day i still am. and for some stupid reason at one point during Mystery's class i asked one of the instructors (Matador) about being "Alpha" and he looked at me, laughed, and said "dude, you need to stop doubting yourself, you are more Alpha Male than these other guys here. when you walked into the room, of couple of the instructors looked at each other curious about you". i didn't know it at the time, but i had what's called a command presence, probably refined a bit by my military training but suffice to say i've always had some degree of confidence since high school when i was a cut up and was a fairly social dude yet always focused on moving my school/career forward.
anyway, what i really liked the most about the PUA stuff was the dating and relationship theory, the social dynamics between men and women. the canned routines, openers, etc. was give and take and stuff i experimented with but in the end you adopt and integrate what suits you, like putting on various military gear depending on the mission. and sure there was some stuff that didn't find comfortable using, but in the end the PUA stuff i was exposed to (and i was exposed to a lot) didn't promote misogyny as many feminist was to discredit, but whatever, everyone is entitled to an opinion and i'm just sharing you mine for whatever it's worth. heck many of these guys who were taking the classes just wanted to improve themselves to get hopefully get and keep a girlfriend and hopefully a wife. but one thing i learned at that time is some guys are open to it, others are not, and some women don't really care if it improves the guy (not boring, creepy) and other women just plan don't like it for whatever reason. everyone has their own relationship path to take, and this was just mine.
sometime during those years, i was activated to military duty and was deployed to Iraq and overseas for 3 years, it was a complete disruption in my life but i definitely wanted to serve, and the experience was incredible. and at one point during my tour in Baghdad, i found myself lying in my trailer bed hearing mortar rockets hit nearby and just said, life is too short and i just need to find someone that cares for me, is attractive enough that meets my physical and sexual needs, and is a good woman emotionally and spiritually. i then deployed to Colombia, met her during my tour there and married her as i was being deactivated as i returning to my civilian status. Game Over... or so i thought.
we were happy for several years but along the way i became a different guy for various reasons, essentially going from an alpha to beta male. in hindsight, i just became an unattractive guy who i wouldn't even date or wanna be married to, pretty much ended up wearing "dad pants" if you can understand the analogy. that of, course, was only part of the problem, we certainly had other marital issues and the divorce was truly amicable and my mom and sisters don't blame me for the failed marriage either, but no surprise on that too.
anyway, that's the point at which i discovered CDR and another site called "talk about marriage", which was very helpful. CDR was very helpful in rebuilding myself, getting my chops back and talking about dating and relationship topics, etc. i definitely didn't have all the answer but at least it allowed me to express my post-divorce thoughts and think things through based on various opinionated comments. but other than sharpening some of my thoughts, rarely was it ever very helpful. there are just too many different bias, hidden agendas, trolls from loveless, envious, bitter types, etc. i've even used different usernames (nokiddin, forgot other) to start fresh again. [yeah, violates TOS i know, mods ban me for life plz] but i liked the the debates and evaluating the b.s. from the good advice. there are definitely some good regular posters here who give great advice and mean well, and you know who you are. but i'm done with my post-divorce recovery now, and i guess done with CDR too since i have other dating and relationship plans to attend to.
but i wanted to pass along something to guys that i this has been perhaps the most valuable lesson learned, and reaffirmed recently: women expect you to just "get it". meaning, you have to take initiative and learn how to play your role in this dating and relationship stuff, including marriage, divorce and post-divorce. and if you don't take charge of figuring out your dating and relationship challenges, it's your fault dude and you gotta live with what you have. like i said at the top of this the long-asz OP, it is incredible what is available online today and it has evolved (manosphere, red pill, etc) so much more than when i started studying dating and relationship dynamics 15years ago. and there is no one answer fits all, everyone has their own relationship path to take. and Game Over is really when your time is up in life. cuz one of your purposes in life is to discover love and the value of your relationships with others, especially the opposite sex. for me, the father-son-holy spirit (feminine) is a model i believe in. good luck.
Last edited by Dr. Clean; 11-10-2014 at 03:42 PM..
sometime during those years, i was activated to military duty and was deployed to Iraq and overseas for 3 years, it was a complete disruption in my life but i definitely wanted to serve, and the experience was incredible. and at one point during my tour in Baghdad, i found myself lying in my trailer bed hearing mortar rockets hit nearby and just said, life is too short and i just need to find someone that cares for me, is attractive enough that meets my physical and sexual needs, and is a good woman emotionally and spiritually. i then deployed to Colombia, met her during my tour there and married her as i was being deactivated as i returning to my civilian status. Game Over... or so i thought.
anyway, that's the point at which i discovered CDR and another site called "talk about marriage", which was very helpful. CDR was very helpful in rebuilding myself, getting my chops back and talking about dating and relationship topics, etc. i definitely didn't have all the answer but at least it allowed me to express my post-divorce thoughts and think things through based on various opinionated comments. but other than sharpening some of my thoughts, rarely was it ever very helpful. there are just too many different bias, hidden agendas, trolls from loveless, envious, bitter types, etc. i've even used different usernames (nokiddin, forgot other) to start fresh again. [yeah, violates TOS i know] but i liked the the debates and evaluating the b.s. from the good advice. there are definitely some good regular posters here who give great advice and mean well, and you know who you are. but i'm done with my post-divorce recovery now, and i guess done with CDR too since i have other dating and relationship plans to attend to. especially the opposite sex. for me, the father-son-holy spirit (feminine) is a model i believe in. good luck.
LOL I know you sounded familiar.
Honestly, I just accept the fact that i will live the rest of my life with no string attached. I had friends come back in body bags, so many folks take their looks, health, aging process, freedom for granted.
I don't know what every man out there think, nor do I care. If I can find a man to share my happiness with, fine, if not, I have enough love for myself.
Boh sides are expected to "get it"
It's what makes relationships successful or failures past all the chemistry, personal motivation, looks blah blah blah
Last edited by rego00123; 11-10-2014 at 03:54 PM..
but i wanted to pass along something to guys that i this has been perhaps the most valuable lesson learned, and reaffirmed recently: women expect you to just "get it". meaning, you have to take initiative and learn how to play your role in this dating and relationship stuff, including marriage, divorce and post-divorce. and if you don't take charge of figuring out your dating and relationship challenges, it's your fault dude and you gotta live with what you have. like i said at the top of this the long-asz OP, it is incredible what is available online today and it has evolved (manosphere, red pill, etc) so much more than when i started studying dating and relationship dynamics 15years ago. and there is no one answer fits all, everyone has their own relationship path to take. and Game Over is really when your time is up in life. cuz one of your purposes in life is to discover love and the value of your relationships with others, especially the opposite sex. for me, the father-son-holy spirit (feminine) is a model i believe in. good luck.
Yes, men should just "get it." So should women. That's what adults do. They don't even need the internet to do so, either. Adults seeking adult relationships reflect on their mistakes and learn from them, talk to friends who won't blow smoke up their backsides, and in general put the effort in to become, and remain, marketable to the gender of their affection. It's no different than a career in that respect. Adults are expected to stay current in their fields, develop their skills, and so on, or they get left behind.
That there is all of this information out there, available at the touch of a few keys, gives people even less of an excuse to not know what they're doing. The only drawback is that some of the younger people who don't have enough real-life coaching may come to rely solely on the internet, and if they tap into the wrong places for insight, make their own situations worse. I'm talking about young men who go to PUA sites and young women who look to Tumblr feminists. Both are insular, treat the opposite gender like garbage, and basically advise people to behave in odious, manipulative, aggressive, and reprehensible ways. The PUA sites focus on the emptiness of manipulating women with low self-esteem just to get laid, and the Tumblr feminists take the attitude that all men are oppressors and potential rapists. Both completely disregard the humanity of the opposite sex and I will not be surprised in the least if 20 years from now there are a lot of miserable middle-aged people bemoaning the fact that no one ever REALLY loved them, without realizing that they went out of their way to make themselves unlovable in their youth.
The PUA sites focus on the emptiness of manipulating women with low self-esteem just to get laid, and the Tumblr feminists take the attitude that all men are oppressors and potential rapists. Both completely disregard the humanity of the opposite sex and I will not be surprised in the least if 20 years from now there are a lot of miserable middle-aged people bemoaning the fact that no one ever REALLY loved them, without realizing that they went out of their way to make themselves unlovable in their youth.
that's your perspective, my observation and experience was different but i see why many, including feminist, was to marginalize and input evil motives on any educational developments involving men's understanding and awareness of social dynamics between the genders, even if it's simply giving a guy a little motivation and courage to start a conversation with someone he is interested in meeting. it's sad that the extremes of both sides have become politically motivated. it's sad when others call me misogynist even when my intentions and heart think of women in the most caring and loving fashion since truly all i want is spiritual unity and connection. but these haters exists, and i believe that ppl are either predisposed to evil or not, and their character will lead them, both men and women regardless of the information they are exposed to.
it's like this dating older man issue, sad to see other women scream how it will ruin a younger woman life to do it or call the man "immature" "has a mental defect" or other character assault, yet many women are happily married to older men.
and fyi, PUA is now old school and so much has transpired in intergender communications and relations since it first came out, but it certainly did offer some rudimentary frameworks to view social dynamics. there is a significant amount of information now available online the is more credibly scientific and substantially theoretical analysis, definitely competitive with the social research of feminist studies.
Last edited by Dr. Clean; 11-10-2014 at 05:57 PM..
Men do have to "get it", if they have any interest in ever getting laid or having a relationship with someone of the opposite sex. (cant bring myself to type the "w" word tonight). If you're not interested in any of that, don't worry about it.
The opposite, however, is not true. They don't have to "get" anything. It wont stop them from getting laid or having a series of crappy, unfulfilling relationships with men. They have the vaginas so they make the rules. Anything that has to be "gotten" is dictated entirely by them. Either accept that and play along or don't accept it and don't, but that's the way it is. The nice thing about being a man is that you have a choice in that matter.
Men do have to "get it", if they have any interest in ever getting laid or having a relationship with someone of the opposite sex. (cant bring myself to type the "w" word tonight). If you're not interested in any of that, don't worry about it.
The opposite, however, is not true. They don't have to "get" anything. It wont stop them from getting laid or having a series of crappy, unfulfilling relationships with men. They have the vaginas so they make the rules. Anything that has to be "gotten" is dictated entirely by them. Either accept that and play along or don't accept it and don't, but that's the way it is.
true, but it won't stop posters from arguing the equality of the position and efforts to dilute the argument and say there is not difference. like i said, guys gotta figure that out for themselves.
true, but it won't stop posters from arguing the equality of the position and efforts to dilute the argument and say there is not difference. like i said, guys gotta figure that out for themselves.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
