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Old 01-29-2015, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
21,199 posts, read 20,121,575 times
Reputation: 22092

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSmuggler View Post
Because it's basically a coin flip, and women initiate approximately 75% of all divorces.

Most common reason is she's "unhappy."

Sorry, I'm not getting Eat, Pray, Loved.
But it's NOT a coin flip. That's exactly my point. Like I said, marriage isn't something that happens to you. You don't step in it, it's not an airborne disease. It's a choice. You shouldn't get married - and that's totally fine. But for people that want to get married and choose someone that they love, that they are compatible with, that they respect and trust - it's not a coin flip. Not all marriages are created equally. My husband and I got married when I was 28 and he was 30. We had been together for 3 years. We had lived together. We were on the same page in terms of our life goals. We loved each other, respected each other, were compatible with each other. Our relationship was built on a solid foundation. Our getting married was not a coin flip. And the person who initiates is not necessarily the person who wants the divorce. I make doctor's appointments for my husband but the appointments aren't for me.

Yes - there are no guarantees - but there are not guarantees in life at all except that you are guaranteed to die one day.
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Old 01-29-2015, 09:49 AM
 
32,730 posts, read 22,687,383 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tofur View Post
I'm assuming you meant that if you had 250k invested when you first got married, 10 years later you'd have 500k if you invested it properly.

If the 250k of income you picked up during the marriage is split, that's 125k that goes away. So you end up with 375k in the bank all said and done instead of the 500k you would've had if you were single (or stayed married). That hurts. 10% of 500k is 50k, 10% of 375k is 37,500. Compound interest works it's magic when you keep increasing your principle every year. The last thing you want is to throw away a big chunk of your principle.

No, I'm just looking at acquired during marriage. If during, lets say, a 10 year marriage period I would have saved 250k. If I was married WE would have saved 500k. Then if we split I would have 250k (ignoring the gains made during that time).

So there is no difference. I would be the same place financially as if I remained single.
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Old 01-29-2015, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
20,015 posts, read 20,519,392 times
Reputation: 20379
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeSmith357 View Post
Because guys think of the big picture... if they have built up a substantial portfolio and assets, they dont want to take a chance of losing half of it, plus maybe an 18 year financial commitment or two on a hunch...

Not saying I am one of those guys, but I understand the argument. Most women do not have these sorts of things to think about, have the legal system and courts in their favor unless they are a habitual felon, sexual predator or repeat offender junkie drug abuser

If the percentage truly was as high as 90%, only a fool would try
If being the operative word here.
Most men do not have these sorts of things to think about as well. Generally the majority of those who marry do so when they are beginning their careers and just beginning to acquire any assets and they work together doing so.

You make is sound as if women are all sitting quietly on a shelf doing nothing while all men are out the gate from HS busting a hump building their empires. In reality more women are getting higher educations and even out earning men, investing and building quite a portfolio on their own.

And sorry, no. When it comes to divorce law and asset division there is not separate rules that apply to each gender. If you marry someone who can not or will not contribute equally to the marriage, that's on you.
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Old 01-29-2015, 09:51 AM
 
32,730 posts, read 22,687,383 times
Reputation: 29784
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSmuggler View Post
Because it's basically a coin flip, and women initiate approximately 75% of all divorces.

Most common reason is she's "unhappy."

Sorry, I'm not getting Eat, Pray, Loved.

It isn't a coin flip. First marriages end at a much lower than 50% rate. Especially if both are educated.

And lets stop with that women initiate 75% of the divorce garbage. Filing /= initiating. There is zero evidence women initiate that percentage of divorces.
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Old 01-29-2015, 10:07 AM
 
Location: NY
8,994 posts, read 14,202,502 times
Reputation: 11339
This straw dog of the alleged 50% divorce rate justifying fears that a marriage is certain to end in divorce and financial disaster is getting pretty ragged and tired.

As timberline says, the real percentage of married people who will end in divorce is not 50%, nor has it ever reached 50%. That is a statistic contrived by comparing marriages in a year vs divorces in a year. It is not a percentage of all married people who end up divorced. Of the whole population, the percentage of people who have ever been married and are divorced has hovered around 40% and has been dropping.

Even closer inspection of divorce statistics shows that a number of factors will greatly reduce even these percentages. College education greatly reduces it, and the percentage of college educated married persons getting divorced is also dropping for instance. There are other factors which reduce it too (which I do not feel a need to spell out in detail here).

Then the "risk" of financial loss also ends up being propped up by extreme hypothetical. Assets carried into marriage are not at risk. For the small percentage of the population with significant assets, prenuptial are signed and upheld every day. Obligations for child support are independent of marriage, as the same obligations are incurred daily by men who choose to start families outside of marriage.

Really, if someone doesn't want to get married then thats fine. Please do not. It's best for everyone... and it may help that all important divorce rate go down because people unfit for marriage won't be getting into it anyway!
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Old 01-29-2015, 10:17 AM
 
376 posts, read 234,287 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
It isn't a coin flip. First marriages end at a much lower than 50% rate. Especially if both are educated.

And lets stop with that women initiate 75% of the divorce garbage. Filing /= initiating. There is zero evidence women initiate that percentage of divorces.

Oh, ok? I'll just take "that guy on the internet's" word for it, when I've read hundreds of pages that state the opposite, including scholarly research.
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Old 01-29-2015, 10:19 AM
 
376 posts, read 234,287 times
Reputation: 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Checkered24 View Post
This straw dog of the alleged 50% divorce rate justifying fears that a marriage is certain to end in divorce and financial disaster is getting pretty ragged and tired.

As timberline says, the real percentage of married people who will end in divorce is not 50%, nor has it ever reached 50%. That is a statistic contrived by comparing marriages in a year vs divorces in a year. It is not a percentage of all married people who end up divorced. Of the whole population, the percentage of people who have ever been married and are divorced has hovered around 40% and has been dropping.

Even closer inspection of divorce statistics shows that a number of factors will greatly reduce even these percentages. College education greatly reduces it, and the percentage of college educated married persons getting divorced is also dropping for instance. There are other factors which reduce it too (which I do not feel a need to spell out in detail here).

Then the "risk" of financial loss also ends up being propped up by extreme hypothetical. Assets carried into marriage are not at risk. For the small percentage of the population with significant assets, prenuptial are signed and upheld every day. Obligations for child support are independent of marriage, as the same obligations are incurred daily by men who choose to start families outside of marriage.

Really, if someone doesn't want to get married then thats fine. Please do not. It's best for everyone... and it may help that all important divorce rate go down because people unfit for marriage won't be getting into it anyway!
Men pay 97% of alimony and something like 80% of child support.

Prenups are also thrown out by judges every day, for little more reason than the judge doesn't like it.

What I don't get is that despite all the marriage defenders here, none of them seem to have a solid reason why the marriage rate is precipitously declining. If it's so great, why is it declining so rapidly?
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Old 01-29-2015, 10:20 AM
 
5,121 posts, read 5,290,021 times
Reputation: 5798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Checkered24 View Post
This straw dog of the alleged 50% divorce rate justifying fears that a marriage is certain to end in divorce and financial disaster is getting pretty ragged and tired.

As timberline says, the real percentage of married people who will end in divorce is not 50%, nor has it ever reached 50%. That is a statistic contrived by comparing marriages in a year vs divorces in a year. It is not a percentage of all married people who end up divorced. Of the whole population, the percentage of people who have ever been married and are divorced has hovered around 40% and has been dropping.

Even closer inspection of divorce statistics shows that a number of factors will greatly reduce even these percentages. College education greatly reduces it, and the percentage of college educated married persons getting divorced is also dropping for instance. There are other factors which reduce it too (which I do not feel a need to spell out in detail here).

Then the "risk" of financial loss also ends up being propped up by extreme hypothetical. Assets carried into marriage are not at risk. For the small percentage of the population with significant assets, prenuptial are signed and upheld every day. Obligations for child support are independent of marriage, as the same obligations are incurred daily by men who choose to start families outside of marriage.

Really, if someone doesn't want to get married then thats fine. Please do not. It's best for everyone... and it may help that all important divorce rate go down because people unfit for marriage won't be getting into it anyway!
Interesting tid bit to point out how much people worry... say you are a college educated person, married in your late 20s, you help out around the house, earn more than $50k a year as a couple, marry someone who gets along with their parents, etc.... your chances of being divorced reach as low as 20%. You actually have a higher chance of being disabled and unable to work before you reach retirement age (I only know this because I am looking into disability insurance). But how many people worry about that? It's kind of like the people who worry about being in a plane crash but drive a car every day.

That said, I am one of those worriers (so to speak). I am afraid to get married again. But I am also capable of understanding that it's my own, personal hangup and that statically, things are in favor or most marriages working just fine. And I see happy marriages all the time (most of my friends are married). All of my not wanting to marry has to do with me and my issues. Mainly me having chosen a spouse so poorly in the past that I am afraid I will repeat my mistake. I am not ready to get back on that horse again after falling off. I may be some day or I may never be. But I am not going to yell at the other riders and tell them they are going to fall just because I did.
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Old 01-29-2015, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
21,199 posts, read 20,121,575 times
Reputation: 22092
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSmuggler View Post
Oh, ok? I'll just take "that guy on the internet's" word for it, when I've read hundreds of pages that state the opposite, including scholarly research.
I'm not even sure what your point is. You don't want to get married? So don't - problem solved. I think the decline in marriage rate is a good thing. People that don't want to get married shouldn't get married. That's better for everyone. If you never want to have a relationship with anyone - that's fine, too. Whether it's because you are asexual, hate women, are too scared, are happy being single, etc. - how you live your life is your choice. Relationships, marriage, dating - these are all choices.
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Old 01-29-2015, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
21,199 posts, read 20,121,575 times
Reputation: 22092
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSmuggler View Post
Men pay 97% of alimony and something like 80% of child support.

Prenups are also thrown out by judges every day, for little more reason than the judge doesn't like it.

What I don't get is that despite all the marriage defenders here, none of them seem to have a solid reason why the marriage rate is precipitously declining. If it's so great, why is it declining so rapidly?
I would say that the marriage rate is declining for some of the reasons that Jill suggested. People don't feel like they have to get married anymore, people are marrying for love and not necessity, people are marrying later in life, people are cohabitating instead of getting married, etc.

"Marriage" is neither good or bad. It is what you make of it. My marriage is wonderful.
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