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Old 02-05-2015, 11:43 PM
 
24,724 posts, read 26,794,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stava View Post
I think where I slip up is when I feel bad for him because I think, if he is approach-avoidant, what negative experience must he have had to cause him to be that way.

I should get over that.
Yes, he probably has had some kind of negative experiences that messed him up. But only he can fix that.
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Old 02-05-2015, 11:46 PM
 
24,724 posts, read 26,794,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stava View Post
I see that! Yeah, not the easiest pill to swallow. I have always been the one to be "counted on" and I assume that role very easily. Everyone around me will fall apart but I'm expected to keep standing. This does wonders for me in my career...
That's the problem. Certain qualities can be a blessing in some situations (career) can be a curse in others (love life). Gotta learn to switch gears. Tough, I know. But the alternative isn't easier.
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Old 02-05-2015, 11:58 PM
 
12,544 posts, read 11,919,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stava View Post
This is really an excellent post. The average person does not understand narcissism to this depth.
Thanks. I've spent a lot of time thinking about this and reading everything I could get my hands on about it, from the psychiatric literature to personal blogs of adult children of narcs. What I've said is kind of a summary of something I read somewhere else, so I can't claim all the credit.

Are You a Magnet for Narcissists?


Quote:
Originally Posted by stava View Post
I think I've looked at narcissistic behavior as deliberate, which I believe some of it is, but the lack of empathy and emotional withholding that they do may just be as far as they can go. Like you said, they do not know what intimacy is, and they don't know what being a "self" is. So they are literally not capable of behaving in better ways, because they do not have the capacity for that. They are not emotionally built for it, because their "self" was annihilated early on by their parents. It's like a non-being. It's not human.
Hence why empaths often refer to narcs as robots, because they sure seem that way!

I'll never fully know or understand what happened to my ex to make him that way. My one regret with him is that right when he told me some stuff that I can't imagine any human being telling another about themselves, the real dark stuff (though not quite Dexter-esque!)--meaning he felt safe enough to tell me--he did the one thing narcs do to perpetuate their own misery: He pulled back and did something manipulative, something small that represented all the Very Big Stuff. And just like that, mushroom cloud, and 7 years were done and over. Two months later, he got a new source, and it cracks me up that she works with emotionally disturbed children. She'll either marry him or wake up one morning and run from the room screaming when she realizes she's always at work.

Someone upthread said it's impossible to have a mature relationship with someone who does the push-and-pull thing. It's impossible to have a mature relationship with a narc. Imagine having to spell out every little emotional cue for them as though they were five years old (because that's usually when the damage occurs). "When I fall silent after you say something, it means I'm hurting," "when I turn away from you, it means I don't want you to touch me," etc. It's almost like working with someone with Asperger's, where they have to learn and and mean something different than and . Then they have to learn that and mean something different than . Then they have to learn that and are actually different from each other, too. And I had to be direct to the point of cringing inside. "YOU ARE ANNOYING ME. I DON'T LIKE IT. STOP IT." I actually had to stop dates within 5 or 10 minutes of getting in the car and tell him to turn around and take me home and we'd try again another day because I saw the way the evening was going to go.

Oh, and my sister's current husband? Barely speaks English. Thank goodness, or he might have jumped off a bridge by now to get away from her.

On that note, I'm off to bed.
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Old 02-08-2015, 09:21 PM
 
3,942 posts, read 3,874,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stava View Post
There's this guy that I know through a mutual friend. I think he likes me, but he goes hot and cold on me all the time and it's making me wonder if he just likes my attention and is playing head games with me to get it.

I feel like he baits me, to where he'll give me just enough attention to make me think that he likes me, but when I reciprocate that attention he pulls back. It's like he always wants to be in the driver's seat and won't let me ever feel like I have something solid to stand on.

And of course, when I start to ignore him he comes crawling back. And the cycle repeats.

Does he like me and he's just immature? Or is he outright manipulating me?
I find that when I start to question myself is when I need to give the other person the boot.

You're too smart for games. You have too little time to waste. Focus on your dignity. This boy is a fool. You are not his tool.
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Old 02-08-2015, 10:40 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
1,818 posts, read 2,044,702 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kat949 View Post
I find that when I start to question myself is when I need to give the other person the boot.

You're too smart for games. You have too little time to waste. Focus on your dignity. This boy is a fool. You are not his tool.
That's a good rule of thumb: Instead of investing energy on wondering "why", just walk away.
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Old 02-08-2015, 10:42 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
1,818 posts, read 2,044,702 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilac110 View Post
Thanks. I've spent a lot of time thinking about this and reading everything I could get my hands on about it, from the psychiatric literature to personal blogs of adult children of narcs. What I've said is kind of a summary of something I read somewhere else, so I can't claim all the credit.

Are You a Magnet for Narcissists?

Hence why empaths often refer to narcs as robots, because they sure seem that way!

I'll never fully know or understand what happened to my ex to make him that way. My one regret with him is that right when he told me some stuff that I can't imagine any human being telling another about themselves, the real dark stuff (though not quite Dexter-esque!)--meaning he felt safe enough to tell me--he did the one thing narcs do to perpetuate their own misery: He pulled back and did something manipulative, something small that represented all the Very Big Stuff. And just like that, mushroom cloud, and 7 years were done and over. Two months later, he got a new source, and it cracks me up that she works with emotionally disturbed children. She'll either marry him or wake up one morning and run from the room screaming when she realizes she's always at work.

Someone upthread said it's impossible to have a mature relationship with someone who does the push-and-pull thing. It's impossible to have a mature relationship with a narc. Imagine having to spell out every little emotional cue for them as though they were five years old (because that's usually when the damage occurs). "When I fall silent after you say something, it means I'm hurting," "when I turn away from you, it means I don't want you to touch me," etc. It's almost like working with someone with Asperger's, where they have to learn and and mean something different than and . Then they have to learn that and mean something different than . Then they have to learn that and are actually different from each other, too. And I had to be direct to the point of cringing inside. "YOU ARE ANNOYING ME. I DON'T LIKE IT. STOP IT." I actually had to stop dates within 5 or 10 minutes of getting in the car and tell him to turn around and take me home and we'd try again another day because I saw the way the evening was going to go.

Oh, and my sister's current husband? Barely speaks English. Thank goodness, or he might have jumped off a bridge by now to get away from her.

On that note, I'm off to bed.
Right, and then all your energy is poured into helping them to understand emotional cues and re-route their pathological knee-jerk impulses. Not my idea of a good time!

I'm finally at the point in my life where I'm coming to see that helping is not always a good thing. In fact, oftentimes it can be downright destructive. I have always gone the extra mile for someone in need, but to carry someone through a mess of their own creation doesn't help them learn the lessons that they have to learn.
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Old 02-09-2015, 12:29 AM
 
12,544 posts, read 11,919,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stava View Post
Right, and then all your energy is poured into helping them to understand emotional cues and re-route their pathological knee-jerk impulses. Not my idea of a good time!

I'm finally at the point in my life where I'm coming to see that helping is not always a good thing. In fact, oftentimes it can be downright destructive. I have always gone the extra mile for someone in need, but to carry someone through a mess of their own creation doesn't help them learn the lessons that they have to learn.
Yep. And with narcs, they don't learn. Pretty much everything I've read about narcissists indicates that the "narcissistic wound" does irreparable damage. About the best you can hope for is that they have the intelligence for cognitive empathy and too much conscience to be a sociopath. But they'll never truly love the way most people do. Even if they behave in a loving fashion, it's just another form of manipulation. They cannot give without getting something back for themselves. If they didn't have to give to get, they wouldn't give at all.

First place that shows up is in bed. You know how sometimes, you just make a night all about the other person, something special, just to please them? Narcs don't do that.

Last edited by Lilac110; 02-09-2015 at 01:29 AM..
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Old 02-09-2015, 06:46 PM
 
7,497 posts, read 9,277,699 times
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Stay away from guys who play games.
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Old 02-09-2015, 06:53 PM
 
7,497 posts, read 9,277,699 times
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Originally Posted by Raena77 View Post
How do you pound sand? Doesn't get everywhere?
That's the whole point.
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Old 02-09-2015, 06:57 PM
 
7,497 posts, read 9,277,699 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no-one9 View Post
Sad thing is I adore someone who is like this...but in the end it's too ****ing exhausting to deal with over the long term. I get fed up...and that's it. I would rather live alone than deal with that ****.
I have a male co worker like that too. I've been limiting my contact with him for months now because even having a short meaningful conversation with him can put me back to square one stuck on him.
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