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Truth be told, I've lived on my own for the past nine years and couldn't imagine pawning off any of my typical chores. Even if married or in a live-in relationship, I'd still be cooking, cleaning, and doing my own laundry. I wonder if most of these men you describe are less independent and that's why they seem so needy in relationships.
To be honest, I think that the majority of women that I know also do the majority of the housework - regardless of who works more or less. In my relationship, I've always done the majority of housework - even during the brief periods of time when I was working and my husband wasn't. I'm NOT good at housework - I'm going to throw that out there right now - so I am in no way a role model when it comes to housework! But - my husband doesn't need to have the floor swept, the carpet vacuumed, the clothes washed, the dishes done, etc. - as often as I do. He's perfectly content to go to bed with a sink full of dishes because he'll get to them tomorrow. He's perfectly content to let the laundry build up to the point where he has to do the laundry for clean underwear. He's perfectly content to live with floors that aren't swept every few days. When we have people stay with us - I do 99% of the prep work because if I left it to him, he wouldn't do anything. It's simply not important to him. So, it's not the single men don't do dishes or laundry - it's simply that married men do not always have the same standards of cleanliness or orderliness. And I say this as someone who is completely unable to live clutter free! Like I said, I'm no role model - but I do have certain standards that I like to maintain and my husband doesn't see the need to maintain them. And this is in no way a complaint about him - he does so much for us and right now he is supporting us while I stay home with the children. I just think that our pattern of housework is fairly common.
However, this doesn't have anything to do with the OP - just thought I'd throw this out there.
I agree. While it's nice to get treated to dinner and other things, that's not my motivation for dating. I can pay for my own meals.
I'm glad you see it that way, as it was not the impression I was getting from your previous posts. IMO, dating/relationships should never be about the money. I would never want to be with a woman who expected me to take her out on fancy dates all the time or buy her fancy gifts. I'll do these things, but I'll do these things on my time and because I think she's worth it; not because it's expected of me. And if a woman like that leaves me because of that, then it's a win/win for both of us.
Having had a very humble upbringing, I have witnessed true love. My grandparents have been together for close to 60 years and they never made a whole lot of money. They raised a family of eight on a very blue collar income. My parents have been together for close to 40 years and raised a family of six on no more than $45k/yr. They stuck it out through thick and thin. This is TRUE love. These are not relationships that are built on financial dependency or support. If you don't want to be with someone because of what they lack or fail to offer you in terms of financial support, then that was never a loving relationship. It was a dependent relationship.
I guarantee you that the vast majority of married folks on this forum will tell you the same thing; that money played very little role in who they decided to be with. A loving relationship does not equal how many material things someone can provide you. A loving relationship is between two people who want to be with each because of how the other person makes them feel through emotional support, romance, empathy, etc. Money should be way down on the list.
Truth be told, I've lived on my own for the past nine years and couldn't imagine pawning off any of my typical chores. Even if married or in a live-in relationship, I'd still be cooking, cleaning, and doing my own laundry. I wonder if most of these men you describe are less independent and that's why they seem so needy in relationships.
Possibly. I think it's probably more complicated than that in a majority of cases. In my own case, my husband works more hours than I do, and he earns about 50% more than I do in addition to carrying our family health insurance and a much larger 401k. Despite our both having jobs, we fall more into the traditional breadwinner/homemaker roles.
If i'm going to a movie with a guy, it's a 3rd or 4th date so I have a better idea if i should offer to pay. I personally would never plan dinner out AND a movie...too expensive to do both in one night. I try to get a sense of what he would normally do if left to his own devices. If he seems to have a habit of dinner AND a movie, then that's okay. If he's more of a takeout and netflix kinda guy, that is the lead I follow. I never ASK for high-end options.
IMHO a gentleman should always pay, then I look for ways to contribute. Like buying tickets in advance, or cooking him dinner. Or just proposing ideas for cheap dates. Or bring a picnic. Whatever.
However, when I first meet a guy I will buy my own coffee or offer to leave a tip or whatever opportunity comes my way.
Ultimately, I let the guy pay for those things if he seems inclined and don't make a fuss about, especially now that I live in the south. I expect gentlemen to expect to pay at first. If he grumbles about buying my coffee, I'm not interested anyway.
I'm glad you see it that way, as it was not the impression I was getting from your previous posts. IMO, dating/relationships should never be about the money. I would never want to be with a woman who expected me to take her out on fancy dates all the time or buy her fancy gifts. I'll do these things, but I'll do these things on my time and because I think she's worth it; not because it's expected of me. And if a woman like that leaves me because of that, then it's a win/win for both of us.
Well, I think that's the point. Many women (including myself) believe that if a man thinks we're worth it, he wouldn't mind picking up the tab. That's not to say that he should pay for everything because he has a penis, but it seems that he would at least pay for a date. And while Onihc will say that a woman should also not mind picking up the tab for a man she thinks is worth it, sure it could happen, but that's not the way tradition goes. You can argue that we should forget about tradition and men and women should behave exactly the same way, but not everyone is going to do that. If that's a problem, then you are simply not compatible with those who don't share your views.
I agree. While it's nice to get treated to dinner and other things, that's not my motivation for dating. I can pay for my own meals.
I've always found it odd when men accuse women of dating for the purpose of free meals. A woman would have to be awfully broke in order to spend time with a man she doesn't like just for the free food. If she's going out with you, it means she wants to spend time with you. If she wanted to exchange her companionship for "perks" she could just be a sugar baby or escort instead and get way more than just food.
Well, I think that's the point. Many women (including myself) believe that if a man thinks we're worth it, he wouldn't mind picking up the tab. That's not to say that he should pay for everything because he has a penis
Actually, that's pretty much exactly what you're saying. Otherwise, the opposite would also apply, i.e. a woman wouldn't mind picking up the tab if she thinks the man is worth it.
Actually, that's pretty much exactly what you're saying. Otherwise, the opposite would also apply, i.e. a woman wouldn't mind picking up the tab if she thinks the man is worth it.
And some women will. I've already said that I've paid for dates before, but I will not pay for the entire first date because I have no interest in breaking that tradition.
That's not to say that he should pay for everything because he has a penis, but it seems that he would at least pay for a date.
At the very essence, this is the point I would advocate. I would add to that that if you like the person, you won't mind taking them out and paying for them. But this applies to both parties as UC18 indicated in his/her quote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UC18
a woman wouldn't mind picking up the tab if she thinks the man is worth it.
Whoever does the asking pays. If she asked me out though, I will at least offer to pay.
If I don't offer to pay, I don't want a second date.
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