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Old 03-14-2015, 06:57 PM
 
3,352 posts, read 2,255,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidRudisha View Post
This is because society has become enormosuly inefficient as far as moving the young generation into having enough time and money for marriage.

More than 50% of people who finish college finish in less than 6 years. Those who are able to secure good jobs after college are the vast minority of young adults and are usually required to work 60+ hours (Look at how Amazon stacks the deck with fresh superstar grads and burns them out in a year). The majority of young adults are overeducated and barely scraping by with $15/hr jobs, $400/month student loan payments, $400/month car payments, $800/month studio apartments.

Then you have the fact that we've created so many new "basic needs" that take up time. Most people go to the gym everyday for 1-2 hours after work. That's anti-social time for most of them. Then they go home and feel they have to spend a half hour checking up on their Facebook and the discussion boards they follow.

If life were more simple, it would facilitate more people falling in love.
Not everyone ment get married or have kids
Alot of people just do not make a effort

 
Old 03-14-2015, 06:58 PM
 
Location: So Cal
14,559 posts, read 10,704,804 times
Reputation: 13925
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedZin View Post
Courthouse is cheap.

Just saying.
And the beach is prettier.
 
Old 03-14-2015, 07:19 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,079 posts, read 70,000,298 times
Reputation: 75885
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosa View Post
In theory yes, but I don't know any young woman who wants to do that. They all want to be Cinderella for a day and want a wedding that costs as much as a luxury car. Friends with benefits are cheaper.

Marriage might make sense if you have kids, but if you don't want kids, then I cannot imagine why you would get married. There's nothing wrong with being a perpetual boyfriend and girlfriend.
Actually, they don't all want to be Cinderella for a day. The wedding industry pushes that, and so do media sitcoms, because weddings boost ratings, they say. But there are plenty of women out there who buck the trends. There are plenty of women who have enough going on in their lives to give them meaning that they don't need to play Barbie or Cinderella. You should get to know real, live women, and a variety of them, to see what they're really like. Some rebel at the mere idea that they should spend enough on a wedding (etc.: reception, blah blah) to equal the annual budget of a small Pacific island nation. Go for the iconoclasts, the creative types, the adventurous women. They don't need a lot of fluff and attention. They're too busy living life to the fullest.
 
Old 03-14-2015, 08:34 PM
 
105 posts, read 143,974 times
Reputation: 348
They are not getting married but are having illegitimate babies as more than half are out of wedlock births. Our country's value system is deteriorating and that is not a good thing.

For millennials, out-of-wedlock childbirth is the norm. Now what?
 
Old 03-14-2015, 08:53 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,079 posts, read 70,000,298 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdNHot75 View Post
They are not getting married but are having illegitimate babies as more than half are out of wedlock births. Our country's value system is deteriorating and that is not a good thing.

For millennials, out-of-wedlock childbirth is the norm. Now what?
This is a very misleading headline. According to the article, a minority of millennials are having children out of wedlock. In that demographic, 41% of mothers are married, and it doesn't say how many millennials are not partnered or are child-free. It would only have to be 10% to make mothers with kids out of wedlock a minority (49%). But since it's more likely that much higher than 10% is either child-free whether partnered or not, the whole argument falls apart. Don't worry, people, the sky isn't falling.

Notice that it's usually conservatives who worry about this sort of thing, and it's also conservatives who try to limit or outlaw abortion.
 
Old 03-14-2015, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
9,745 posts, read 14,140,979 times
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I'll remember this the next time I'm turning down dozens of offers for marriage.
 
Old 03-14-2015, 09:55 PM
 
1,256 posts, read 1,296,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
This is a very misleading headline. According to the article, a minority of millennials are having children out of wedlock. In that demographic, 41% of mothers are married, and it doesn't say how many millennials are not partnered or are child-free. It would only have to be 10% to make mothers with kids out of wedlock a minority (49%). But since it's more likely that much higher than 10% is either child-free whether partnered or not, the whole argument falls apart. Don't worry, people, the sky isn't falling.

Notice that it's usually conservatives who worry about this sort of thing, and it's also conservatives who try to limit or outlaw abortion.
Article spoke of a trend where growing proportion of newborns are born outside of marriage. Last available data showed that about 60% of women under 30 y/o who gave birth were unmarried (this doesn't include the fact that plenty of those who gave birth during marriage were pregnant at the time of marriage, or the fact that so many states have legislated AGAINST husband's right to divorce his wife during her pregnancy, thus imposing a moratorium on his right to proceed with divorce during a woman's pregnancy). Half of first-born children were born to unmarried mothers as well.
The only way these trends are reversed are through specific kind of immigrants who follow the pattern of marriage-first, such as immigrants with very conservative views on marriage and family such as India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc.
By the way, the last available annual statistics show that about 40%+ of children born on an annual basis were born to unmarried mothers. This proportion includes a large share of women who actually cohabit - but statistics and legal system see these women as "single mothers". This is also a common reason why many poor couples tend to avoid marriage as well, they avoid formalizing their relationship since there is a different way that the state sees it and treats it when it comes to calculation whether they're over or under poverty line and whether the mother and her child qualify for certain benefits. This is a general factor that also drives recent trends where poorer folks are more likely to cohabit and less likely to marry (at least during first few years of their child's lives, before most of these benefits run out).


@OP:
To observe why marriage became a burden, you need to realize why living in clans became a burden and not simply a useless tradition for contemporary folks in 19th and early 20th century. If you stayed with your parents in late 19th and early 20th century, you invested your work, earnings and assets to take care of your elderly parents and invest in your parents' property. Unlike today when parents are in their 50s and 60s and they still fund their children in their education and career establishment, parents in their 40s and 50s were a huge liability to their children who needed to take care of them as well. Teenagers usually supported their parents, not vice-versa. However, someone who invested all their work into their parents' property would find out that, since laws that revolved around clans have evolved, following their contemporary tradition was not something that is useless, but something that was very terrible due to opportunism of others.

Same thing can be said about opportunism of our contemporary world. It is absurd to say that any of us love our siblings any less than people loved their siblings some 200 years ago during the age of clans - we just want to make sure that each of us manages their separate finances and families. We trust them and we wish all best for each other, we help each other... I guess most of us do, there are some exceptions as always. But, generally speaking, you don't want to invest your lifetime savings and efforts into your parents' ownership which is going to be part of mutual inheritance. They MAY be fair, but then again - there's a potential opportunism that's going to be even more devastating if you're less affluent. We trust our siblings and most of us on this forum are probably best friends with our brothers/sisters... hopefully. But it's highly unlikely that we'd wish to get involved into something like this... I'm talking about general rule, not exceptions.

When you observe it in such light, it's only logical to conclude that marriage is gradually falling out of favor the same way other things of the past did - not because it's some useless tradition, but because of its numerous and serious drawbacks, there are very few positive things that may make you think of those things as arguments for marriage vs cohabitation. "Because I like to be called a husband".... right! Tell that to the elderly folks who want to ensure that their kid gets their own hous, not their SO's kid from previous marriage. Cohabitation isn't rising among the young folks only, despite what the media wants you to think.
Health benefits are a good example in favor for marriage when it comes to general use, "your spouse has a legal say if you are in a Dr. House scenario" is not really that convincing. If you plan your spouse to inherit property instead of all of it going to your children, that's another example that happens frequently enough. This can also be an argument against marriage - if you want to ensure that only your biological children inherit it, if your SO has other children as well. Another good argument would be pension inheritance - I'm not sure that an unmarried spouse can inherit unmarried SO's pension. On the other hand, this concept is outdated and a number of countries have started to put an end to spousal pension inheritance as well.
Generally speaking - marriage becomes a legal burden that way too many people are NOT willing to take. They don't want the state to regulate their personal relationships and impose some archaic legal framework among two modern-living folks who may part their lives, finances and anything else within the next decade or within a single year.

Last edited by nald; 03-14-2015 at 10:18 PM..
 
Old 03-15-2015, 02:25 AM
 
Location: Bronx
16,092 posts, read 18,590,016 times
Reputation: 8124
Quote:
Originally Posted by augiedogie View Post
Apparently people listened to their programing from the elite. Women were told they don't need men, so they became convinced they don't. They hook up. They have babies out of wedlock and fall back on family or the govt. for help.

So I guess men listened too. Now they are free to hook up also, sex after a date or three. No judgment or condemnation on anyone. Family, govt. and even their churches are happy, just as long as they're happy. Not only this, but family courts are so punitive toward men, if the wife gives them the old heave ho. Marriage will continue to dwindle.

This is very true!
 
Old 03-15-2015, 02:47 AM
 
Location: Bronx
16,092 posts, read 18,590,016 times
Reputation: 8124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
This is a very misleading headline. According to the article, a minority of millennials are having children out of wedlock. In that demographic, 41% of mothers are married, and it doesn't say how many millennials are not partnered or are child-free. It would only have to be 10% to make mothers with kids out of wedlock a minority (49%). But since it's more likely that much higher than 10% is either child-free whether partnered or not, the whole argument falls apart. Don't worry, people, the sky isn't falling.

Notice that it's usually conservatives who worry about this sort of thing, and it's also conservatives who try to limit or outlaw abortion.
For many years I always assumed that the media only portrayed millennials as white suburban college kids who move to cities who are less likely to have kids due to careers and high load of college debt?

The only part of the data that is factual is that college educated millennials are more likely to have kids during a marriage compared to those with lesser education who tend to have kids outside of marriage.
 
Old 03-15-2015, 02:54 AM
 
Location: Bronx
16,092 posts, read 18,590,016 times
Reputation: 8124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Montanaguy04 View Post
Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married | CNS News



Going to cut and paste a few paragraphs here.

Why is it men's fault that men don't want to get married? I blame family law and how it favors women when it comes to alimony, child custody, child support, division of assets, no fault divorces, etc.

So if a woman finds a nice guy during her bad boy dating years (18-25) she better hold onto him. I think both genders have left the virgin until marriage notion behind with the rare exceptions. Though this article says 'woe to the girl that doesn't put out' there are still way more virgin or dateless men then women IMO and not by choice.

I do agree that the changing marriage rates is a direct result of feminism. After decades of social law favoring women in divorce courts it leaves very little reason or incentive for men to get married. A marriage followed by a 50% chance of divorce resulting in alimony and child support(s) can leave a man financially ruined for the better part of his life. Not even talking about the behavioral changes of women but just the legal implications of marriage.

I do want to get married someday, but I'm being very cautious about it.

perfectly explains that majority of women go for a small pool of desirable men these days.
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