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I never said guys don't whine about women chasing money. What I said/asked was when have guys ever cared about a woman's money? I've been dating since I was 13 and I can't think of a single guy in that time that has ever cared about what car a girl drives, how much money she has, her major, how much she makes, or anything related to finances.
Hmm. Well I've known plenty of guys over the years who took into account a woman's education and income. Was it their top priority? No. But it was definitely a factor. The guys didn't care what kind of car she drove, but they did pay attention to whether she was poor, middle, or upper class. More than that, they paid attention to how much debt the person was in how they were about managing their money. These guys know that once you marry someone, what they do with money becomes your problem too.
So?
No one is denying that marriage rates are falling. What we dispute is the cause(s). I personally think it has more to do people seeing marriage as archaic and less about their fears of divorce .
That's funny because fear of divorce is consistently the top reason for reluctance to marry for men in surveys.
Marriage is definitely a loser's deal for men in the western world today. To paraphrase Doc Holiday in Tombstone, "only suckers buck the tiger, the odds are all on the house..."
Hmm. Well I've known plenty of guys over the years who took into account a woman's education and income. Was it their top priority? No. But it was definitely a factor. The guys didn't care what kind of car she drove, but they did pay attention to whether she was poor, middle, or upper class. More than that, they paid attention to how much debt the person was in how they were about managing their money. These guys know that once you marry someone, what they do with money becomes your problem too.
When I'm considering a woman for a LTR I don't take into account how much she is making, I take into account how she handles money. I would rather be with a low income but debt free woman then a high income but stupid with her money woman.
Marriage is definitely a loser's deal for men in the western world today.
Except for the cases where the woman gets taken to the cleaners in divorce, not to mention all the cases where they divvy everything up equitably, or the woman just walks, because she wants it to be over ASAP, and doesn't care about settlement.
When have guys ever cared about a woman's money? For a variety of reasons I have a pretty wide range of friends and I can't think of a single guy that has ever said "why can't I find a woman on my level",
Every guy on this thread worried about alimony cares about a woman's money ... or he should, anyway.
Except for the cases where the woman gets taken to the cleaners in divorce, not to mention all the cases where they divvy everything up equitably, or the woman just walks, because she wants it to be over ASAP, and doesn't care about settlement.
Women for the most part only want to date up so they aren't in a position to lose anything in a divorce. Also this is partially why marriage rates are down since there are less men that make more money than women as opposed to past decades. This is all proven with statistics and sociology.
It's not that that men don't want to get married - it's that there are less women that consider the available men in the dating pool marriage material.
Why is it men's fault that men don't want to get married? I blame family law and how it favors women when it comes to alimony, child custody, child support, division of assets, no fault divorces, etc.
So if a woman finds a nice guy during her bad boy dating years (18-25) she better hold onto him. I think both genders have left the virgin until marriage notion behind with the rare exceptions. Though this article says 'woe to the girl that doesn't put out' there are still way more virgin or dateless men then women IMO and not by choice.
I do agree that the changing marriage rates is a direct result of feminism. After decades of social law favoring women in divorce courts it leaves very little reason or incentive for men to get married. A marriage followed by a 50% chance of divorce resulting in alimony and child support(s) can leave a man financially ruined for the better part of his life. Not even talking about the behavioral changes of women but just the legal implications of marriage.
I do want to get married someday, but I'm being very cautious about it.
I think that the major reason why the majority of men are not getting married young is because the amount of quality men in the US are far greater than the amount of quality women. Any woman that is even of remote quality can just hop online and will pretty much have an instant husband.
For example, I live in the middle of nowhere right now. Physically, I'm a reasonably attractive guy. I have a good job and I'm friendly and fun to be around IRL (though, my personality does offend some people...but that's another story).
Anyway, there's a woman similar to me in these terms at my job. She's nearly 30 and, until we had a falling out (where I said things that weren't very nice but were true), she was scared to even try dating. She did not do anything at all. After our falling out, she simply went online and picked the best looking, most successful man that she could find. One month after putting in almost no work (the man wined and dined her, of course), she has a boyfriend.
Meanwhile, I've had to approach and put myself out there. I was rejected one time (by a woman that wouldn't even meet me based on my picture). I was rejected a second time by another woman at my workplace (though this one appears to be coming around a bit with persistence, but it's too soon to tell).
So, basically, this woman that I described did nothing but create an online dating profile and she has a boyfriend. I have been pursuing a woman for the same amount of time and I may or may not be close to getting a date.
*This is not to mention the fact that I have not been doing online dating recently (which surely would have netted me hundreds more rejections).
So, you see, there is a huge imbalance between men and women that strongly favors the women.
Maybe this is why men are able to reproduce when they are elderly, while women generally top out in their late 30s.....because it's so damn hard for men to find a datable woman, whereas it's extremely easy for women to find a datable man.
Why is it men's fault that men don't want to get married? I blame family law and how it favors women when it comes to alimony, child custody, child support, division of assets, no fault divorces, etc.
So if a woman finds a nice guy during her bad boy dating years (18-25) she better hold onto him. I think both genders have left the virgin until marriage notion behind with the rare exceptions. Though this article says 'woe to the girl that doesn't put out' there are still way more virgin or dateless men then women IMO and not by choice.
I do agree that the changing marriage rates is a direct result of feminism. After decades of social law favoring women in divorce courts it leaves very little reason or incentive for men to get married. A marriage followed by a 50% chance of divorce resulting in alimony and child support(s) can leave a man financially ruined for the better part of his life. Not even talking about the behavioral changes of women but just the legal implications of marriage.
I do want to get married someday, but I'm being very cautious about it.
I call bs on that article it comes across as having a certain slant. I spotted it after 5 seconds of reading it. How do they know what percentage of those men actively pursued women for marriage? Just because they are bachelors doesn't mean they want to be.
Quote from the article :
Quote:
and many live in a state of “perpetual adolescence” with ominous consequences
for the nation’s future, says Janice Shaw Crouse, author of “Marriage Matters.”
“Far too many young men have failed to make a normal progression into adult
roles of responsibility and self-sufficiency, roles generally associated with
marriage and fatherhood,” Crouse, the former executive director of
the Beverly LaHaye Institute, wrote in a recent
Washington Times oped
Ok Janice define "normal progression into adult roles and self-sufficiency". Do you mean the man making more than the woman? Women fought for that to be abolished, and now you're complaining there's no men to marry?
Last edited by wanderlust76; 03-16-2015 at 09:30 PM..
I call bs on that article it comes across as having a certain slant. I spotted it after 5 seconds of reading it. How do they know what percentage of those men actively pursued women for marriage? Just because they are bachelors doesn't mean they want to be.
My post above yours explains the phenomenon.
I don't believe that men actually want to be bachelors. I believe that the dearth of quality women pushes them in that direction. Add on to that the fact that the few quality women out there not only know their worth but sometimes even overstate it (and, in turn, demand near perfection from the many men that chase them) and you will have many single, quality men.
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